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Old 04-21-2008, 12:38 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 6,336,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synapse View Post
Seriously? I never thought Phoenix had a downtown. What happened?
Phoenix grew very fast between 1950 and 1960. The population went from 106,818 to 439,170 in 10 years. The downtown Phoenix had, I'm guessing, was much to small to contain all these people...people started to move outward where there was space to build and companies, retail, etc followed...there was no longer any need for a centralized downtown area.

Additionally, by the 1950s, cars had really started to dominate and sprawl had started to take place all over the US...not just in Phoenix. The problem in Phoenix however was that the city was too new compared to others and downtown never had a chance to grow as big as other cities...it was a downtown for only 100,000 people.

Nevertheless, Phoenix certainly had a vibrant downtown and it was the place to go out at night or on the weekend, full of people and shopping, restaurants, and theatres. Here are some old pictures of downtown Phoenix...looks "happening", doesn't it?











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Old 04-21-2008, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Inside the 101
1,555 posts, read 4,160,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HX_Guy View Post
Additionally, by the 1950s, cars had really started to dominate and sprawl had started to take place all over the US...not just in Phoenix. The problem in Phoenix however was that the city was too new compared to others and downtown never had a chance to grow as big as other cities...it was a downtown for only 100,000 people.
Not to mention that Phoenix, like several cities, discontinued its extensive network of streetcar lines after WWII. Several parts of Phoenix that are now considered historic districts and in-town neighborhoods were originally considered "streetcar suburbs." The popularity of the car and the belief in unlimited mobility led to a quick rush away from Downtown and those close-in areas. Now, those districts are being gentrified and several of them -- most notably Evans-Churchill, Roosevelt, and Garfield -- are being absorbed into a sort of expanded Downtown more appropriate for a metro area of four million.
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Old 04-21-2008, 01:36 PM
 
Location: AZ
19,697 posts, read 51,362,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synapse View Post
The rail cars will be air conditioned. All you need is a cart. People do this all the time - summer in Chicago, for example.
MAJOR difference between pushing a cart in 80-85 degrees vs 110+.
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Old 04-21-2008, 02:07 PM
 
488 posts, read 855,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-o View Post
MAJOR difference between pushing a cart in 80-85 degrees vs 110+.
I've seen people push a cart to the L trains in zero degrees and snow. Which is worse?
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Old 04-21-2008, 02:37 PM
 
Location: AZ
19,697 posts, read 51,362,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synapse View Post
I've seen people push a cart to the L trains in zero degrees and snow. Which is worse?
Its "EL" trains, first off. And to be honest, BOTH would suck. Zero and 110 degrees are tough on the body no matter which way you look at it.
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:52 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 6,394,050 times
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Get a spray bottle. For your face on the walk home. It's so hot here you won't sweat anymore so you'll have to bring your own to cool off. But people do stupid stuff here all the time. Go for it!
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Old 04-22-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
3,995 posts, read 6,312,644 times
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Its called hydration, and as someone who has lived in NY, Chicago, Minneapolis, and Boston, 89 degrees with 90% humidity is MUCH worse. Not only can you NOT cool off because of the moisture in the air, but you don't stop sweating for an extended period of time after entering an air conditioned building. When I attended an exchange with Columbia University in NYC IN August, it was absolutely miserable and four persons became ill at the exchange because of the heat index. When we came to Tempe, it was hot, I believe it was 109 degrees on our return and the sun was scortching, but we found relief much faster in Arizona. As we were stuck in huge crowds, in sweltering humidity in NY we never went anywhere in AZ that wasn't air conditioned. NY also has certain places, homes, apartments that are not air conditioned! Was that miserable! Walking in the AZ heat is dangerous if you do it for extended periods of time and without water. I live downtown and walk all the time despite having a car.

Furthermore, when you live downtown you don't push a cart of groceries home form the market, LOL! Not in Phoenix and not in NYC unless your homeless. This is what people in downtowns do, no matter the city: we shop at small deli's and grocers a few times a week and bring our own grocery bags so that we don't use paper or plastic bags. My neighbors that have families and little time, order groceries online. All the grocers near downtown deliver. My friend has a family of five and lives many floors up in her building. She shops the small grocers and delis in downtown for perishables and orders her bulk items from Safeway and they deliver to her condo. She uses online coupons and can download retailer coupons and use them for her purchases. Its great and easy, takes her about an hour or so to do this, about the same time a trip may take if she went to the store alone.
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:11 AM
 
72 posts, read 114,580 times
Reputation: 63
Default Houston or Dallas

Cant live without a car.....Seattle,SF, New York City sure lots of walking
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:42 AM
 
919 posts, read 2,166,605 times
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Actually I think it's doable depending on circumstances - and not too bad - especially if one not need commute to work or have to deliver kids to school, etc.

In my case, I work from home for a NY company so I have no commute. It seems to be a growing trend among some professions.

The majority of my driving is related to ho hum shopping, going out to eat, etc. In retropsect, I might have chosen to live in a place nearer basic needs and could do without a car most of the time.

There are grocers planned for central PHX and I can see a few hoods where one can walk to a lot of stuff. Downtown might be a little iffy, but certainly closer to Central/Indian School/Camelback one could get by without a car if they needed to stay near the abode.

And if money wasn't a factor, you could certainly reside in the newly emerging urban clusters such as Biltmore, Old Town Scottsdale or Tempe. The latter two would be geat if you didn't want to drive and could afford the new developments.
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