Homeowners associations (Phoenix: litigation, foreclosures, gated)

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by mattyk

homeowners associations are ridiculous. they are driving me nuts. if i own a house no one should be able to tell me that i cant park my company truck in my driveway. they should not be able to tell me that i must put my city of mesa trashcans in m garage(they stink when full of trash no matter how much u clean them when their empty). if i want to paint my house pink and yellow i damn well should b able too(but i don't wanna). its like even though you own your home you don't really. what kind of democracy is this?

Unfortunately, matty . . . HOAs are a NECESSARY EVIL nowadays.

I agree 100% with Captain Bill on this one . . . if you want to park a commercial vehicle in your driveway, leave garbage cans outside for days on end and paint your home panic red and puke green . . . AVOID AN HOA.

Consider this . . . if everyone in your community left their garbage cans out all the time and parked a commercial vehicle or two in their driveways, how long before the overall value of your home would PLUMMET even more than they are now.

I agree, we, as homeowners, should have more freedom but too many people have no taste and/or respect for others.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by nitram

The OP is a perfect example why they have HOA's.

Absolutely, Nitram . . . BEAUTIFULLY STATED!

[silverbear]

I've lived in both HOA and non-HOA areas. Personally, I prefer my current non-HOA neighborhood, but a lot of that preference is driven by the stability of my neighborhood. Where I live, neighbors gently prod one another to keep everything in good condition. I might feel differently if I lived in an area that was deteriorating before my eyes.

Ultimately, the Captain makes the most important point here: If you don't like HOAs, don't buy a house governed by one. There are plenty of high-quality non-HOA neighborhoods, and they tend to be conveniently located in more established areas.

[LadmoFan]

I have mixed feelings about HOAs. After living in a neighborhood where my former bachelor neighbor rented his house to 7 other guys, and living with their assorted vehicles, and living with their beer bottles...a HOA sounds mighty good. And there is the former neighbor that used to repair TVs for "friends" and left the ones waiting for repair in the driveway or front yard...I contacted the city code enforcement officer but there was little they could do about the bachelor neighbor. How do you define a family was the response from the code enforcement officer. I never contacted the city about the TV repairman.

On the other hand, I don't like super restrictive codes. If a homeowner is paying the mortgage, insurance and taxes they should be allowed to live as they choose as long as it meets city code.

LF

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Ah, would that it were. It is all but impossible to buy a home built in the last 15 years that is not in a HOA or in a "bad" part of town. Permitting authorities now require an HOA to maintain community drainage structures which all developments have and for all of the reasons you mention. The alternative to buying into an HOA is to be forced into an older home or a unsafe neighborhood for the most part. People who desire not to have an HOA would be virtually excluded from Ahwatukee, Goodyear, Surprise, and Maricopa among other booming cities. That is not freedom of choice.

I don't think many object to HOAs, but to the tactics. Twiggy is spot on. Many of the bylaws restrict and control behaviors that have no measurable impact on property values, rear yard plant pallets and repetitious, monotone color schemes for example. As far as getting involved, in many developments like Estrella where I am, the builder has so many lots that they can vote in any increases and spend whatever sum on whatever cause they want and hire and compensate staff as they see fit. The real "homeowners" have no voice at all.

You know this is exactly right on as well. I was on our HOA for about a 2 month period before I realized how unfair the whole process was. For one the people who were suppose the get after the "big guy with the 10 cars" forget it, they were deathly afraid of this guy. He was an ass, and used it well. They were always afraid for there lifes and only pursued easy targets. (I wasn't posting on a guess captain.) lol I have been on one. I felt sorry for the old ladies with weeds and fines up the yinyang and nothing happening to the big mean dude. They just sit quiet until the house sells and the company the HOA goes through collects a big wad. I learned 2 things from my experience, #1, it doesn't matter if you have an HOA or not, it's the luck of the draw if your neighbors respect there property. #2, if your weak they will get you, if your scary mean they will avoid you and fine you when you sell. #2 still affects the resale value of the area, until they are gone. And you know what, these people never leave, everyone around them does..lol
Plus, if the old lady or the young girl with a newborn or somebody sick has weeds or forgets to put there cans in, help them out!!! HOA's are not a replacement for being a good neighbor. This is why I quit, I thought it would be different but when I suggested we help them they told me it cost a lot of money to send out those letters and they were going to get it back. They also spent most of the meetings talking crap about everyone in the neighborhood. Gone should go these HOA's, off with there heads!!!!

[twiggy]

OOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU Im back!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you feel it, huh? huh?
ha ha ha ha

[mattyk]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

If one doesn't like HOA's then the simple solution is do not buy in one.

dont buy into one?! all new houses here in mesa have hoa's. i wasnt able to find one older community that didnt look loke its been to hell and back(unless you count the 65+ but im not old yet.

[OctoberMoon]

It's funny, I grew up in a nice area of Los Angeles, on a nice street with no HOA and it looked just as good if not better than some of these streets in Phoenix that DO have HOAs. I never even heard of an HOA (other than for condos) before I came to Arizona.

Why is it that in other parts of the country, people can live on a beautiful street and not have to pay into an HOA but here in Arizona it's needed? Are people THAT lazy here they have to be told what to do and threatened to be fined or they won't do it?

I'm not trying to put Arizona down because I love it here. I just don't understand why we don't have a choice? You either get stuck in an old neighborhood or the ghetto if you don't have to have an HOA. That or you have to be dirty rich and buy your own land outright and build a house on it. If only everyone had that choice...

[Captain Bill]

I don't think many object to HOAs, but to the tactics. Twiggy is spot on. Many of the bylaws restrict and control behaviors that have no measurable impact on property values, rear yard plant pallets and repetitious, monotone color schemes for example.

Ponderosa, the HOA's have to enforce the CC&R's fairly, evenly, and across the board. If there are privacy fences for the back yards I haven't seen one that can or will try to enforce something that can't be seen by neighbors.

Color pallets are something that the community can get changed by getting involved. One big problem is that most members of a community only complain; they never go to meetings; they never volunteer to get involved in order to change things.

As far as getting involved, in many developments like Estrella where I am, the builder has so many lots that they can vote in any increases and spend whatever sum on whatever cause they want and hire and compensate staff as they see fit. The real "homeowners" have no voice at all.

In the beginning before turning the HOA over to the community the builder has the votes, but that changes when it's turned over. Now the community runs the show. And again if enough homeowners go to meetings, no matter if the builder still hasn't turned it over, changes can be made.

I was on our HOA for about a 2 month period before I realized how unfair the whole process was. For one the people who were suppose the get after the "big guy with the 10 cars" forget it, they were deathly afraid of this guy. He was an ass, and used it well. They were always afraid for there lifes and only pursued easy targets. (I wasn't posting on a guess captain.) lol I have been on one.

Twiggy, a 2 month period is not enough to really learn what is happening, learn the CC&R's, get educated on how an HOA is supposed to operate (there are many educational classes available, and our board members had to take them), and to gradually make a change. A 2 year period is more like it.

Your story of a board out of control is a story heard many times. I know it's true, and I also know it can be changed. It takes a few people who are willing to hang in there, do the work in a business like manner, and make a slow change. Changes from the situation you describe does not come overnight. It takes a couple of years of dedicated work.

We have the occasional individual in our communities who try to bully their way through things, but we don't back down. If there is a violation by a bully, we are going to see that it gets corrected, and it does. Boards who operate the HOA as a business, and take an understanding approach to their neighbors, and a no-nonsense but friendly approach to running the business are those successful boards that run communities that people are proud to live in.

Neighbors who attend the board meetings, and add their input to issues that are being discussed also have the ability to make changes.

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Ponderosa, the HOA's have to enforce the CC&R's fairly, evenly, and across the board. If there are privacy fences for the back yards I haven't seen one that can or will try to enforce something that can't be seen by neighbors.

Color pallets are something that the community can get changed by getting involved. One big problem is that most members of a community only complain; they never go to meetings; they never volunteer to get involved in order to change things.



In the beginning before turning the HOA over to the community the builder has the votes, but that changes when it's turned over. Now the community runs the show. And again if enough homeowners go to meetings, no matter if the builder still hasn't turned it over, changes can be made.



Twiggy, a 2 month period is not enough to really learn what is happening, learn the CC&R's, get educated on how an HOA is supposed to operate (there are many educational classes available, and our board members had to take them), and to gradually make a change. A 2 year period is more like it.

Your story of a board out of control is a story heard many times. I know it's true, and I also know it can be changed. It takes a few people who are willing to hang in there, do the work in a business like manner, and make a slow change. Changes from the situation you describe does not come overnight. It takes a couple of years of dedicated work.

We have the occasional individual in our communities who try to bully their way through things, but we don't back down. If there is a violation by a bully, we are going to see that it gets corrected, and it does. Boards who operate the HOA as a business, and take an understanding approach to their neighbors, and a no-nonsense but friendly approach to running the business are those successful boards that run communities that people are proud to live in.

Neighbors who attend the board meetings, and add their input to issues that are being discussed also have the ability to make changes.

Sounds like you are in a good situation Captain, but a lot of them need help. They are small, broke, and ill equipped to handle real resistance. There for concentrating on what is easy to fix. Yes, maybe I should have stayed in and tried to change things, and I thought about it, but I believe it would have taken more than 2 years. The people in our HOA are mostly people who own the house and rent it. We have more rentals on our street than owners. Foreclosures are a new issue as well. Abandon homes. Neighbors need to meet more and work together, not rely on HOA's to make it easy to ignore everyone. I'm glad yours is doing well though. You have to be open to the fact that not every HOA is the same. Seeing there are so many now, a lot of them are small and broke, they don't have to much to offer but fines. No community activities, or community spirit, just sour letters and unhappy neighborhoods. And I am open to the fact that yours is doing a good job as well. The "Lakes" in Tempe, my former village had a smooth working HOA. But just because it has HOA on it doesn't mean you can expect it to work well. A lot are just a painful, expensive joke.