Ca to AZ? (Phoenix, Scottsdale: budget, childcare, best)

[Katimae]

Thank you again, Bummer and ORexpat and MichaelinWa. Yes, it's true, I'm a complete cold wimp... I was out riding my bike last night in jeans and a sweater with a long sleeved t-shirt on and everyone else I saw was in shorts! People around here think 70 is HOT I think it doesn't feel warm until it's at least 80... Part of the reason I think I'm made for Phoenix! I think 110 is beautiful! My husband and I went to Tombstone in August and had the BEST time... I think we were the only ones sitting in the sun during the shootout at the OK corral! I am from Palo Alto, and it's not too bad during the day here in the summer, but at night it drops 30 degrees!

ORexpat... at least you get to see the doctor, I had the flu this fall I was SO sick, I called my doctor and the office told me that they are only seeing old people and children and I'd be fine. I worked for a family who had a baby and the mother was still bleeding after giving birth, but she couldn't get in to the doctor, so she ended up going back to Toronto to visit family and see a doctor there (after waiting 5 months here). I'd like to have a nice place, but it doesn't have to be huge or anything, we don't really stay in much. Why do you feel it's a fascist state? I really want to hear the negatives too. I wish I had heard the bad stuff before I moved here! everyone I talked to made it seem like utopia... warm year round, crime free (don't get me started), and friendly with anything you want at your fingertips. One person told me the most we'd ever need to keep warm is a hoodie sweatshirt at night in the winter! I'm sorry, but it gets down to the 20's in the winter at night here.

[LadmoFan]

quote=Katimae;3581124]Thank you again, Bummer and ORexpat and MichaelinWa. Yes, it's true, I'm a complete cold wimp... I was out riding my bike last night in jeans and a sweater with a long sleeved t-shirt on and everyone else I saw was in shorts! People around here think 70 is HOT I think it doesn't feel warm until it's at least 80... Part of the reason I think I'm made for Phoenix! I think 110 is beautiful! My husband and I went to Tombstone in August and had the BEST time... I think we were the only ones sitting in the sun during the shootout at the OK corral! I am from Palo Alto, and it's not too bad during the day here in the summer, but at night it drops 30 degrees!

ORexpat... at least you get to see the doctor, I had the flu this fall I was SO sick, I called my doctor and the office told me that they are only seeing old people and children and I'd be fine. I worked for a family who had a baby and the mother was still bleeding after giving birth, but she couldn't get in to the doctor, so she ended up going back to Toronto to visit family and see a doctor there (after waiting 5 months here). I'd like to have a nice place, but it doesn't have to be huge or anything, we don't really stay in much. Why do you feel it's a fascist state? I really want to hear the negatives too. I wish I had heard the bad stuff before I moved here! everyone I talked to made it seem like utopia... warm year round, crime free (don't get me started), and friendly with anything you want at your fingertips. One person told me the most we'd ever need to keep warm is a hoodie sweatshirt at night in the winter! I'm sorry, but it gets down to the 20's in the winter at night here.[/quote]

Phoenix does get a bit chilly at night during the winter but no where near the 20s. I live in the high desert of California and we have warm days (115 average during summer and 70s at night) and during the winter (50s during the day and no lower than teens during the night in January). Phoenix is far more temperate relatively speaking. Expect 115 to 118 degrees during the day and 90s at night during summer. I can not remember the average temps for winter except it was fairly warm. Check the Sunset Western Garden book to get a general idea of temperatures and growing seasons.

LF

[Katimae]

Thanks LadmoFan, good info. I have been reading through some other posts and now I'm wondering if we should look into Scottsdale too. I origianlly thought no because I figured we can't afford it and we're trying to move away from the rich, snobby areas. I've been reading great things about their downtown though. We do NOT want a suburb feel, I think a big part of our problem is that our neighborhood is all high income families and we're middle income, no kids. What do you guys think?

[Katimae]

Movin'On... a little off topic, but I read in one of your old posts how much you loved the Castro Halloween party... We loved it too, way too much fun! Did you know Halloween is banned in the Castro now? 2 years ago several people were shot during the party and apparently it was a problem that has been escalating over the last several years so now it's all over.

[vegaspilgrim]

Katimae, I think you're making a fundamental logical error... you're saying "I don't like A, B, C about city X, therefore I'm going to move to city Y..." failing to keep in mind that city Y might share those same exact problems and might even have it worse. For example, backlogged waiting lists to see a doctor-- that is a national problem, not a California problem. I'd be willing to bet that the Bay Area has MORE doctors and medical professionals per capita than Phoenix. Public transportation-- if you're already complaining about the public transportation system in the Bay Area, don't even bother moving to Phoenix, because even when the light rail is built out and fully operational it will look like a joke compared to the Bay Area. Job market-- the entire national economy is in trouble right now-- including Phoenix. People are having a hard time finding jobs here too. Weather-- from November to February and the first few weeks of March, Phoenix can get chilly, especially at night. If you live in the core, built up metro area it might hit the mid 30's on occasion at night, and if you live near the outskirts it could even get below freezing. The rest of the year, yes, it WILL be warmer than where you live now-- guarranteed. But be careful what you wish for. This forum is littered with potential newcomers to Phoenix saying "110, 115 degrees is nothing to me"-- most of whom have never even experienced temperatures that hot. Let's see if you'll still be singing the same trope come July.

When it comes to Phoenix, there's really no distinction that can be made between "the city" and "the suburbs," unlike some cities. The whole thing, including just a few blocks from the skyscrapers of downtown, is one big suburb. There are old suburbs, new suburbs, boring suburbs, interesting suburbs, rich suburbs, poor suburbs, suburbs with character and independent restaurants and stores, suburbs that are all chains and "cookie cutter," but there's not really any one area with an overwhelming center of population density. The whole entire city is motor-vehicle dependent. Phoenix is attempting to retrofit certain areas into a more high density, city-like environment, and each year the city is making baby steps, but it's proceeding at a snails pace. If you want an urban environment right now, don't come to Phoenix. If you want to live in a suburban environment (of the dozens of different flavors it comes in here), then Phoenix is for you.

[sablebaby]

Great post, vegaspilgrim! I agree totally. I had some of the same thoughts while reading the OP likes and dislikes.

[blisterpeanuts]

Originally Posted by Katimae

We'd like to live in a busy metro area where we could go see a game or a movie or a great local band and take public transportation!

If you situate yourself near to the new Metro rail as well as a couple of bus lines, you can probably use the public transportation system at least part of the time. But it's not as good as in some other, more concentrated cities such as San Francisco, Boston, and Manhattan, so you should plan on having cars (his and hers).

Regarding the social aspects, I would be cautious about generalizing. California's huge, maybe 7x or 8x the population of Arizona, and you will get all types and extremes there. Arizona is rather laid back and less on the leading edge in many areas. I have found most people friendly. There are jobs here; go to jobing.com for a pretty good listing. Phoenix has been attracting businesses because of its low cost of living, plentiful land, and major airport hub. The major slowdown here is in the construction industry, and governments are cutting their budgets. But there are still opportunities.

I've only been here since August and have experienced only part of the summer, but the AC in my house works pretty well and the fall-winter-spring period is just gorgeous. I've been in shirtsleeves since last spring except for an occasional sweatshirt in December-January. Best of luck whatever you decide.

[healthcaresafety]

Find where you will work before you locate. The public transportation is very limited and if you do the bus (urg) you will be waiting at 100+ degree buss stops in the summer. The new downtown rapid transit goes almost no place - at least not yet. For nightlife and good 'urban' living go to downtown Scottsdale. It's really the best of urban living in the area - with some public transit....You will need cars - it is impossible to manage in PHX without an automobile. The sports stadiums are spread out, as are the entertainment venues for concerts. PHX is the 5th largest city in the US and the largest large city in square miles. It is not comparable to other cities for condensed urban living, the plan (however poorly defined) 30 years ago was to spread it out - place employers in industrial settings with affordable housing nearby. That worked when people worked for the same company for decades. When people began moving jobs every 3 -4 years and you were relocated across town - that plan began to fail. We however are stuck with it - thus the dependence on the automobile. Find your jobs and then your housing. With both of you working it is unlikely you will be conveniently locted to each other - but you can try. There are plenty of nice apratments and rentable condos across the valley. You will find something in your price range no matter where you go.

[ORexpat]

Originally Posted by LadmoFan

quote=Katimae;3581124]Thank you again, Bummer and ORexpat and MichaelinWa. Yes, it's true, I'm a complete cold wimp... I was out riding my bike last night in jeans and a sweater with a long sleeved t-shirt on and everyone else I saw was in shorts! People around here think 70 is HOT I think it doesn't feel warm until it's at least 80... Part of the reason I think I'm made for Phoenix! I think 110 is beautiful! My husband and I went to Tombstone in August and had the BEST time... I think we were the only ones sitting in the sun during the shootout at the OK corral! I am from Palo Alto, and it's not too bad during the day here in the summer, but at night it drops 30 degrees!

ORexpat... at least you get to see the doctor, I had the flu this fall I was SO sick, I called my doctor and the office told me that they are only seeing old people and children and I'd be fine. I worked for a family who had a baby and the mother was still bleeding after giving birth, but she couldn't get in to the doctor, so she ended up going back to Toronto to visit family and see a doctor there (after waiting 5 months here). I'd like to have a nice place, but it doesn't have to be huge or anything, we don't really stay in much. Why do you feel it's a fascist state? I really want to hear the negatives too. I wish I had heard the bad stuff before I moved here! everyone I talked to made it seem like utopia... warm year round, crime free (don't get me started), and friendly with anything you want at your fingertips. One person told me the most we'd ever need to keep warm is a hoodie sweatshirt at night in the winter! I'm sorry, but it gets down to the 20's in the winter at night here.

Phoenix does get a bit chilly at night during the winter but no where near the 20s. I live in the high desert of California and we have warm days (115 average during summer and 70s at night) and during the winter (50s during the day and no lower than teens during the night in January). Phoenix is far more temperate relatively speaking. Expect 115 to 118 degrees during the day and 90s at night during summer. I can not remember the average temps for winter except it was fairly warm. Check the Sunset Western Garden book to get a general idea of temperatures and growing seasons.

LF[/quote]
First, if I had seen Tombstone first, I would be favorably impressed also. I went there in August and also loved it. However, I did have to leave the shootout, because of the heat.
I feel AZ is fascist because of the attitude of the authorities. Some of the things they do are terrible, and have a very authoritarian attitude doing it. For instance, jury duty. They forced some poor woman in her 80's, who couldn't walk without help and had no car, who lived 30 miles from downtown Phoenix, to do jury duty in mid-summer. I think she actually did escape it, after protest. It seems that you are threatened with arrest for almost everything, and my experience reporting a crime was very unpleasant. I just wasn't used to this attitude when I came here, and I find it frightening.
In addition, the attitude toward the elderly here is terrible.

[Katimae]

Thank you VegasPilgrim, Blisterpeanuts, healthcaresafety, and ORexpat for your posts.

vegaspilgrim, isn't that the whole idea of this forum? If you aren't happy where you live you can research and find a place that is better? I thought that it would be best to list all the reasons I want to leave Ca to give everyone an idea of where I'm coming from and what I'm looking for. I know I find it easier to give advice if I know more about the person and what they like/dislike. I don't think I researched Ca nearly enough, I wish I had known about this forum back then! I think you misunderstood, I like the public trans here (I wish it went later on the peninsula, but overall). I have no problem with driving either, we drive fairly frequently, but it's nice to know you can go out for a drink and catch the train (or whatever) home. I actually researched San Diego before Phoenix and decided it was not for us. We don't plan on moving for at least a year, but this time we want to go in much more informed. Your post did have a lot of very useful info, thank you.

blisterpeanuts and healthcaresafety thanks for the info! I'll definitely keep all of that in mind. I like the idea of a laid back vibe! All of the public transit info was great too.

ORexpat, thank you for all of the negatives too! You know, I always agreed that you can tell the kind of person a man is by how he treats his momma and I'm thinking it might go for a city and how it treats its senior population!