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Old 11-14-2020, 06:07 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
6,710 posts, read 9,809,930 times
Reputation: 7894

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Speak for yourself. I've lived here for 19 years and still love the sunshine and warmth
How much will you love it when we run short on water thanks to an overkill of sunshine & warmth, and a lack of rain & snowpack? Do you think the H20 from your faucets which we take for granted is somehow magically manufactured inside your pipes???
()
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Old 11-14-2020, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
24,921 posts, read 9,695,680 times
Reputation: 8103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
How much will you love it when we run short on water thanks to an overkill of sunshine & warmth, and a lack of rain & snowpack? Do you think the H20 from your faucets which we take for granted is somehow magically manufactured inside your pipes???
()
I only use tap water to shower, I drink bottled water as the tap water here is terrible
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Old 11-15-2020, 05:20 AM
 
2,704 posts, read 910,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
Suit yourself, but moving to Phoenix strictly for a change in the weather/climate is ridiculous. Many of us who have lived here for a long time actually look forward to LESS sunshine every now & then because we're in a serious drought situation (no significant storm systems since March), and the long dreadful summer we just experienced was the hottest on record. Extreme temperatures create problems, regardless if it's extreme heat or extreme cold. Besides, with more people working from home thanks to the Chinese virus, it's possible to not have to go outside very much if the weather is that miserable.
Living in a cold climate is definitely more expensive than living in a warm one: the cost of snow removal and damage/injuries from vehicle accidents; damage to roads, bridges and vehicles from salt; the energy requirements for building climatization are greater; winter clothing requirements; buildings needing deeper footings and pipe depths, and likely others.

The population centers of the U.S. are where they're at historically because of their proximity to water for transportation, having adequate rainfall and soil quality for food production, and other natural resources. Phoenix was definitely at a disadvantage due to a lack of rainfall, but Lake Mead, plus the advent of air conditioning, reset the chess board for Arizona. Look at the growth of Florida as a parallel, it's what, the fourth most populous state, now, with potential to be third? The past ten or twenty years have shown a large population shift from colder to warmer climates, and I don't see it slowing down anytime soon, Texas is booming.

As stated above, fresh water will be a concern if growth continues at the present rate; but that can be mitigated by California's willingness (or not) to sell its allotment of Colorado River water and replace it with desalination plants, which is done by countries all over the planet. Water is re-usable or multi-usable with proper treatment, the only way it is "lost" is through ocean-drainage and evaporation (and even then, will be re-used as rainfall in New Mexico and Texas). Bottom line, water is the only sticking point to future growth, and that is certainly not an insurmountable barrier.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
22,937 posts, read 12,270,656 times
Reputation: 19254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
Living in a cold climate is definitely more expensive than living in a warm one: the cost of snow removal and damage/injuries from vehicle accidents; damage to roads, bridges and vehicles from salt; the energy requirements for building climatization are greater; winter clothing requirements; buildings needing deeper footings and pipe depths, and likely others.

The population centers of the U.S. are where they're at historically because of their proximity to water for transportation, having adequate rainfall and soil quality for food production, and other natural resources. Phoenix was definitely at a disadvantage due to a lack of rainfall, but Lake Mead, plus the advent of air conditioning, reset the chess board for Arizona. Look at the growth of Florida as a parallel, it's what, the fourth most populous state, now, with potential to be third? The past ten or twenty years have shown a large population shift from colder to warmer climates, and I don't see it slowing down anytime soon, Texas is booming.

As stated above, fresh water will be a concern if growth continues at the present rate; but that can be mitigated by California's willingness (or not) to sell its allotment of Colorado River water and replace it with desalination plants, which is done by countries all over the planet. Water is re-usable or multi-usable with proper treatment, the only way it is "lost" is through ocean-drainage and evaporation (and even then, will be re-used as rainfall in New Mexico and Texas). Bottom line, water is the only sticking point to future growth, and that is certainly not an insurmountable barrier.
I agree with your comments. I would ad that 74% of Arizona water is used for agriculture which could be reallocated to the cities and population centers. I'm not suggesting that concerns of water resources aren't valid but they are way overstated by most people.

On the cost of real estate, I recently sold a house in suburban Phoenix at about 28% of what my son's house in suburban Seattle costs and the Phoenix house was about 25% larger. We are moving to Phoenix area from Washington state and will save about $3K/month versus Washington state housing costs.

Last edited by Tall Traveler; 11-15-2020 at 07:00 AM..
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Old 11-15-2020, 08:42 AM
 
13,574 posts, read 3,579,245 times
Reputation: 8614
Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232 View Post
As a landlord the biggest problem I see with applicants is poor credit. Which isn't necessarily because they don't pay their bills but because they've got too much debt. I was floored to read credit reports which show applicants with 10 grand or more in credit card debt. Another 10-15 grand in car payments. And say another 2- 3 in miscellaneous debt.

I look at these people and don't get it. Why are they driving a 32 grand RAM truck on the salary they make? Why do they have a 55 inch flatbed TV in the kitchen as well as the living room?

Lots of people believe that if they qualify for the loan that means they are entitled to those things. They never look at the bigger picture.
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Old 11-15-2020, 10:14 AM
 
7,797 posts, read 5,172,779 times
Reputation: 7442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
Living in a cold climate is definitely more expensive than living in a warm one: the cost of snow removal and damage/injuries from vehicle accidents; damage to roads, bridges and vehicles from salt; the energy requirements for building climatization are greater; winter clothing requirements; buildings needing deeper footings and pipe depths, and likely others.

The population centers of the U.S. are where they're at historically because of their proximity to water for transportation, having adequate rainfall and soil quality for food production, and other natural resources. Phoenix was definitely at a disadvantage due to a lack of rainfall, but Lake Mead, plus the advent of air conditioning, reset the chess board for Arizona. Look at the growth of Florida as a parallel, it's what, the fourth most populous state, now, with potential to be third? The past ten or twenty years have shown a large population shift from colder to warmer climates, and I don't see it slowing down anytime soon, Texas is booming.

As stated above, fresh water will be a concern if growth continues at the present rate; but that can be mitigated by California's willingness (or not) to sell its allotment of Colorado River water and replace it with desalination plants, which is done by countries all over the planet. Water is re-usable or multi-usable with proper treatment, the only way it is "lost" is through ocean-drainage and evaporation (and even then, will be re-used as rainfall in New Mexico and Texas). Bottom line, water is the only sticking point to future growth, and that is certainly not an insurmountable barrier.
Agree but only point out that Phoenix is where it is because it’s at the confluence of multiple river systems and was used as a heavy agricultural center for the mining towns around it. The river systems are dammed off so we don’t see what Phoenix looked like back when it was settled, but it was riparian in parts.

CAP was a huge win for agriculture and home developers but long term, things need to be evaluated and adjusted. We have the resources but they’re going to have to rework how they’re used and to where. Queen Creek, for example, is buying land adjacent to the Colorado River to get more paper water rights. GRIC is also leasing water rights to east valley suburbs.
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Old 11-15-2020, 12:07 PM
 
2,704 posts, read 910,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64 View Post
Agree but only point out that Phoenix is where it is because it’s at the confluence of multiple river systems and was used as a heavy agricultural center for the mining towns around it. The river systems are dammed off so we don’t see what Phoenix looked like back when it was settled, but it was riparian in parts.

CAP was a huge win for agriculture and home developers but long term, things need to be evaluated and adjusted. We have the resources but they’re going to have to rework how they’re used and to where. Queen Creek, for example, is buying land adjacent to the Colorado River to get more paper water rights. GRIC is also leasing water rights to east valley suburbs.
I bow to your expertise, my knowledge of Phoenix and the southwest in general is from the 30,000 foot level, having done some reading, visited Phoenix several times, having been abused numerous times at Lost Wages, and visiting family in Utah for the past forty years.

Speaking of Vegas, tourism seems to have rebounded quite a bit from the shutdown, but man, videos of that place show a crowd a lot rougher around the edges than what I remember, if they don't get that straightened out, nobody's going to WANT to go back. I'm researching heavily because I'm on a Fast Track to get out of Illinois, and Minnesota isn't on the short list of places to move to. I've always been of the opinion that sunbirding is smarter than snowbirding; it's easier to escape the heat of someplace like Phoenix in summer for a few weeks than it is the cold of Minneapolis in winter, simply due to it being easier to travel; no worries about Wyoming blizzards in July.

If I could create my own year-round climate, it would actually be on the cool side, with daytime highs below 70 most of the time, similar to the Washington coast in summer. But since San Luis Obispo is out of the question for a whole lot of reasons, will have to compromise - I HATE high dew-points, have shoveled enough snow for two lifetimes, and expect to need quality healthcare expertise as the retirement years tick past, that narrows the list down to mid-to-larger cities west of the Rockies and east of Californy - maybe the Tri-Cities, Boise, Reno, St. George, Vegas, El Paso, Phoenix, Tucson, Prescott, and anywhere else I'm not thinking of. If self-driving cars become a reality, the need to live near larger cities would be much less, since I don't envision ever punching a clock again, but don't want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere should I lose the ability to drive (happens to everyone eventually), and will likely be doing this solo.

Anyhoo, Phoenix is a great place, IMHO. On the flip side, I don't understand how the state most friendly to gun owners majority-voted for a guy who would like nothing better than to tear up 2A, but that's another thread. Things that make you go, "Hmmm", I guess.
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Old 11-15-2020, 03:04 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,061 posts, read 1,816,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
Anyhoo, Phoenix is a great place, IMHO. On the flip side, I don't understand how the state most friendly to gun owners majority-voted for a guy who would like nothing better than to tear up 2A, but that's another thread. Things that make you go, "Hmmm", I guess.
hi Curly;

quick answer to this; Maricopa County, where phoenix is, is alot like Crook County, in your home state; mostly democrats, and a majority of the states population(65%) live there...most of the rest of the state, and many of the suburban areas, are solid republican, conservative, gun owners/supporters, just like Illinois is away from crook county

guns aren't going anywhere in Arizona, no matter who gets elected to any office, so I wouldn't worry about that, if you are considering moving here..
you gotta come in July/august, and see if you can handle the death heat, although, I believe you're retired, which makes it ALOT easier to avoid the hottest parts of the day, and to do your "stuff" when the sun isnt blazing..
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Old 11-15-2020, 08:01 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
6,710 posts, read 9,809,930 times
Reputation: 7894
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
I only use tap water to shower, I drink bottled water as the tap water here is terrible
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
Living in a cold climate is definitely more expensive than living in a warm one: the cost of snow removal and damage/injuries from vehicle accidents; damage to roads, bridges and vehicles from salt; the energy requirements for building climatization are greater; winter clothing requirements; buildings needing deeper footings and pipe depths, and likely others.
https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/Curre...onitor.aspx?AZ

Read the above link if you care to. Practically the entire state of AZ is currently is in severe to exceptional drought. This is nothing to take lightly. We all can love sunny, warm weather to a certain point, but when people become oblivious to the long term effects of too much sunshine and an ongoing lack of precipitation, it becomes purely ignorant.

Living in a hot climate certainly creates plenty of costly expenses. Cars are much more prone to tire failure, and parts like batteries, hoses, and belts have a very limited lifetime. The cost of air conditioning isn't inexpensive ... and in fact, in years like this one where the heat started early and ended late, the average home/business owner could operate a cooling system for at least 6 months. Added to that is the average air conditioning unit in a climate like this lasts slightly over 10 years, and the replacement cost for HVAC systems can be anywhere from $5K to $15K. Other things like higher water bills if you have a pool and/or a yard with grass & trees, the cost to replace plants or trees that die from exposure to excessive heat translate to one thing: it's not cheap to live here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
The population centers of the U.S. are where they're at historically because of their proximity to water for transportation, having adequate rainfall and soil quality for food production, and other natural resources. Phoenix was definitely at a disadvantage due to a lack of rainfall, but Lake Mead, plus the advent of air conditioning, reset the chess board for Arizona.
Yes, Lake Mead and CAP were life savers ... however, we're faced with another issue: Lake Mead's water level has been shrinking due to not only the demand for water in the Phoenix area, but in other places that use Colorado River water, such as Nevada & California.

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/local-...ught-persists/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
Look at the growth of Florida as a parallel, it's what, the fourth most populous state, now, with potential to be third? The past ten or twenty years have shown a large population shift from colder to warmer climates, and I don't see it slowing down anytime soon, Texas is booming.
Texas & Florida are completely different than Arizona regarding water availability. Florida has an abundance of water resources compared to Arizona, and one obvious reason is the difference in the climates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
As stated above, fresh water will be a concern if growth continues at the present rate; but that can be mitigated by California's willingness (or not) to sell its allotment of Colorado River water and replace it with desalination plants, which is done by countries all over the planet. Water is re-usable or multi-usable with proper treatment, the only way it is "lost" is through ocean-drainage and evaporation (and even then, will be re-used as rainfall in New Mexico and Texas). Bottom line, water is the only sticking point to future growth, and that is certainly not an insurmountable barrier.
I'm all for desalination, but there are problems with the ones already built. Yuma has a desalination plant which has only been operational a few times since 1992 and needs millions of dollars for repair & upgrades. So while it's a good idea to move in this direction, there is a hefty cost ... so where do you propose the money comes from? More taxes? More user fees on our water bills?
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Old 11-15-2020, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Casa Grande, AZ (May 08)
1,673 posts, read 3,801,022 times
Reputation: 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
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I'm all for desalination, but there are problems with the ones already built. Yuma has a desalination plant which has only been operational a few times since 1992 and needs millions of dollars for repair & upgrades. So while it's a good idea to move in this direction, there is a hefty cost ... so where do you propose the money comes from? More taxes? More user fees on our water bills?
Lots of options to solve the water issues here long term - including desal as you mention and pipelines from other locations.

Yes, expensive - but maybe not so much if growth continues. Even at our current population a 100 BILLION dollar project (whichever is most efficient) means only 15K per AZ resident. Throw that out over a
30 year bond and it is only 40 bucks a month.

Obviously that is nothing to sneeze at - but home builders could easily figure out a way to add these costs to new homes should there be demands.

Before everyone jumps - my numbers are VERY rounded and I know not all 7 million AZ residents pay property tax and 100 billion may not be enough - my point is there are options if the demand is there.
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