This housing market is unsustainable. Why? And when will things cool down again? (Phoenix: 2015, renter)

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

My point is it is NOT tough to be in the top 9%. To a large degree, you need to work smarter. If you are in the trades (subcontractor) and call people back, you are in the top 9% because you work smarter. I paid a handyman $95 an hour AND he is booked solid! In another example, a guy just put my wireless alarm system. We talked and he has 500 accounts at a $15 profit per month. Plus installation fees (he charges $80 an hour) or $240 for three hours. Plus equipment mark-up. Sure, he had the option to go work for someone for $30 an hour because it is "stable". He chose the latter. Now he has write-offs, cannot fire himself, and hires others for $30 an hour, etc. The choice is to be an average alarm installer or one who takes the bull by the horns and thinks outside the box.

The key here is not to be "average". I literally drove my kids around "average" neighborhoods. I let them know the result of when they settle for "average". The Op voluntarily went into an average-paying career, after laying the groundwork (college, staying debt free etc). Realize that people are where they are for a reason. Often (not always), is because they settle. Heck, our daughter wanted to be a hygenist. The good ones make close to $100K. I asked why not a dentist? Her answer was that she didn't think of it. I had her shadow 3-4 dentists in high school and the rest is history.

I come from the school of thought that it is incredibly easy to outperform most people. Most settle. Most lack drive. Most made bad decisions. Hitting the top 9% really isn't an accomplishment when you think about it deeper. It's actually pretty easy for 80% of the people if they tried (but they don't).

We should get back on topic now

No, no it isn't! There is a reason that almost everyone earns less than $100,000/year. And it's because most employers can't afford to pay people that much, and there aren't enough jobs to go around at that wage for everyone. You keep focusing on the micro level, while we're talking about the macro level!

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

No, no it isn't! There is a reason that almost everyone earns less than $100,000/year. And it's because most employers can't afford to pay people that much, and there aren't enough jobs to go around at that wage for everyone. You keep focusing on the micro level, while we're talking about the macro level!

Yep ^^. Because people lack disciple, education (street smarts), and drive. My words focused on the Ops question "what are my options"? I get the impression that you have a defeatist attitude. If the Op was raised in our house, I predict a much different economic outcome. And if my kids were raised with your 9% POV, where would my kid's path be headed towards???

That all said, I'm a natural at statistics. I understand your point. I'm saying, it's "easy" when you understand the formula. Stip me of my net worth and have me switch industries at age 56. I can do it again. Because I am smart enough, have plenty of desire to succeed, and know the formula. Those who don't, struggle. And to be clear, a person's drive isn't something you are automatically born with (so not everyone can have the motivation to work hard). Google dopamine and motivation. We were not all given the same amount.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Yep ^^. Because people lack disciple, education (street smarts), and drive. My words focused on the Ops question "what are my options"? I get the impression that you have a defeatist attitude. If the Op was raised in our house, I predict a much different economic outcome. And if my kids were raised with your 9% POV, where would my kid's path be headed towards???

That all said, I'm a natural at statistics. I understand your point. I'm saying, it's "easy" when you understand the formula. Stip me of my net worth and have me switch industries at age 56. I can do it again. Because I am smart enough, have plenty of desire to succeed, and know the formula. Those who don't, struggle. And to be clear, a person's drive isn't something you are automatically born with (so not everyone can have the motivation to work hard). Google dopamine and motivation. We were not all given the same amount.

Well good for you, you and your family won the genetic lottery, whoop di f****n do :/

The average IQ is around 100, and at least 1 in 4 people have an IQ below 90. You aren't going to make a doctor, dentist, business owner etc out of them.

I'm a realist, and reality pretty much sucks ass for the majority of people these days, so we try to do the best we can with what we have

[john3232]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Yep ^^. Because people lack disciple, education (street smarts), and drive. My words focused on the Ops question "what are my options"? I get the impression that you have a defeatist attitude. If the Op was raised in our house, I predict a much different economic outcome. And if my kids were raised with your 9% POV, where would my kid's path be headed towards???

That all said, I'm a natural at statistics. I understand your point. I'm saying, it's "easy" when you understand the formula. Stip me of my net worth and have me switch industries at age 56. I can do it again. Because I am smart enough, have plenty of desire to succeed, and know the formula. Those who don't, struggle. And to be clear, a person's drive isn't something you are automatically born with (so not everyone can have the motivation to work hard). Google dopamine and motivation. We were not all given the same amount.

I'm not suggesting this is the OP.... but when I hear people say the above they usually don't want suggestions. Why not? Because they don't like them. They want life to go their way.

But life has never been fair and never will be.

With regards to housing you don't always get to live where you want. Sorry.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

I don't really know what I want. I just want a better situation. What I do know is I can't afford the rent increases in the long-term, and I can't really seem to compete in the market because I cannot buy cash, and I can't even put 20% down and never will with the rent increases. And in every other city, it seems to be just as bad or worse off. This is my home and it frustrates me. There are people out here buying multiple homes to landlord to people like me and profit off of me. And then there are flippers buying the low properties that would normally sell to people like me, to sell to the ones who want to landlord and profit off them. I can probably buy a place under 240k and there's so little of anything below this value, all I want is a condo or townhouse. The ones that are are in really bad shape, small with a laundromat, or in really bad neighborhoods. There are exceptions, but they go so quickly.

Some people just want a slice of the cake but the cake is gone before they are allowed to even get to it (I'm 26, the last time the market was "good" I was in high school) and I have been doing "all the right things" gone to school, pay off debts, save money get a good credit score... and I still can't make it. It feels rigged and I'm upset. I don't have these 401k stock options others have mentioned, I'm simply looking to enter... and I can't compete with the veterans.

I honestly think you'd be surprised at what you can accomplish by working with the right team (eg mortgage broker and realtor). First off, you never know what you can actually afford until you start the process with a lender. Things like low interest rates and first-time homebuyer programs put you in a much better position than you might think. A good realtor will be on top of anything new coming to market and will make a concerted effort to speak with the listing agent to see what they are truly looking for. Can you compete with a cash offer? Probably not, but it depends and you never know. Every home is different and so is every seller. You will probably strike out a few times and lose some homes you love, but you will never really know until you start the process. You have to start somewhere - complaining just takes you a couple steps in the wrong direction.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Well good for you, you and your family won the genetic lottery, whoop di f****n do :/

The average IQ is around 100, and at least 1 in 4 people have an IQ below 90. You aren't going to make a doctor, dentist, business owner etc out of them.

You didn't google the dopamine topic. It has NOTHING to do with IQ. Dopamine (motivation) is genetic and that was what I was referencing. Economically speaking, horsepower beats brainpower. Smart enough (the Op has a degree) plus horsepower can mean $uccess. But not using your attitude. So we are clear, IF that is your goal, you can make a lot more money than a doctor and dentist.

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

I'm a realist, and reality pretty much sucks ass for the majority of people these days, so we try to do the best we can with what we have

BS. You can be a business owner with an average (100) IQ. I know a lot of people who fit that profile. As a side note, I was the 1st to go to college out of 6 boys. Some ended up dropping out. On my wife's side, she has 3 HS drop out sisters, in prison brothers, welfare sisters etc. The odds were stacked against us. we poured our hearts into extracting whatever we could from our kids. This did not happen by accident.

Again, it's time to go back to the topic at hand. OP. My advice has changed. Roll over and give up. Because you have no say in how much you make. Only 9% win the prize.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by john3232

I'm not suggesting this is the OP.... but when I hear people say the above they usually don't want to hear suggestions. Why not? Because they don't like them. They want life to go their way.

But life has never been fair and never will be.

With regards to housing you don't get to always live where you want. Sorry.

Then again, you're the same poster who is gleefully jacking up the rent on your homes by $500/month

[timothyaw]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

My point is is that only 9% of Americans earn $100,000 per year or more. Which means that 91% earn less than that. Heck, I earn $87,000 per year, and that puts me in the top 15% of wage earners, yet I still rent as does OP.

The higher the wage, the fewer job openings/opportunities there are. It's simple economics

That's good money. I'm guessing you weren't making that much in the great recession when there were a lot of good deals?

[Justabystander]

Your market is being fed by places like Chicago where houses are selling in no time flat for prices at or above asking. People are then forced to decided quickly to buy a house with more money than they thought. This happened to my wife's cousin who sold her house in suburban Chicago in no time with three offers, and then bought into a subdivision in suburban Phoenix, sight unseen, and town unseen, immediately thereafter to start the building process while she moved in with her parents in Ohio after closing in Chicago. This will remain crazy until interest rates go back to normal.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by timothyaw

That's good money. I'm guessing you weren't making that much in the great recession when there were a lot of good deals?

No, I was only earning $650/week back then

To be fair, I was only 25 on 9/15/2008