Solar Panels with APS (Glendale, AZ) (real estate, appliances, get credit)

[Susana0512]

Hi all,


We bought a new house in Glendale, Arizona. We were thinking of getting Solar Panels due to stories of how expensive APS can be. Was wondering anyone here can share there stories on having APS with and without Solar Panels.. Our home is a little over 2000 SQ FT.

Sharing prices would help.

[Mike from back east]

It's complicated, I gave up trying to understand all the permutations. Perhaps someone has a decision tree or procedure for how to arrive at a pricing conclusion.

[AZ Manager]

Going solar without net metering is a very difficult decision to make. You can do the math yourself if you take the time to figure out the numbers though. I went solar in 2017 and I now pay about $250-$500 a year to APS (there are a lot of variables with solar those are my lowest and highest so far and that low can't really go lower), down from $3000 in 2016, which was before their last rate hike.

I am net metered though which means every kWh I generate and send onto the grid I get credited for exactly 1 kWh. Without net metering you get "paid" by banking credits, let's say $0.05 pet kWh (these aren't the numbers), for every kWh you send to the grid. Then when you pull electricity from the grid you pay full retail, let's say $0.13 per kWh, minus your credits. I probably wouldn't go solar today with net metering being gone but I'd have to do the math on it. My payback on my system at the current rate is 2023 based on what I was paying in 2016. That means no APS rate hikes are calculated in there which there was already 1 in 2016/2017 and another one is coming.

My system is 10.98 kW and cost me $16,500 after the $1k state rebate and the $7,500 fed rebate, original cost was $25,001. I generate between 91% to 102% of my annual electricty usage, last year was a high usage year while the year before wasn't as bad. My normal monthly APS bill is $20 with 2 spike months in August and September, around $100-$200 each at their peaks; last year my highest bill was $190.49 while the year before it was $29.82. I paid cash for my solar but it would have been around $110 over 20 years if I financed it at purchase.

Also, keep in mind you have to actually owe enough taxes in order to claim those rebates. I believe you can spread it out over a 2 or 3 years but I'm not a tax pro so look into it yourself. I believe it is line 24 on your 1040 that shows your total tax owed.

[wase4711]

there is no question that the cost of electricity is going up for the foreseeable future; there arent many cases where solar doesnt make sense, especially in the long term.

its hard to say what your electric bill will be until you buy a house and live in it; does it have a pool? How old is the HVAC? are all your lights LED? are all your appliances Energy Star rated? what temps will you keep your house during the day? During the night? can you delay you major electricity useage until after 8pm, and before 3pm the next day? So many variables here, as you can see..

your electric bill can be anywhere from 150 a month to 800 per month, depending on ALL of these factors.

We went solar last year; missed the final year of net metering, but, we still know that we pay ALOT less for electricity having solar panels; we have paid zero to APS so far in 2021, and its april, and we still have a 37 dollar credit going into May, but, as others have confirmed, it totally depends on your electricity useage, and there isnt a easy way to figure out how much that will be until you are out here awhile..

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

Going solar without net metering is a very difficult decision to make.

I've done a bit of discounted cash flow analysis on PV. Based on that little experience, I'd be pretty surprised if it ever makes economic sense to install a system if the homeowner is getting paid a wholesale rate for power that's pushed onto the grid.

Assuming a person is doing it for financial reasons, one is left with trying to build a system that is not grid-connected. Even though I'm an EE, I don't know enough about power systems to say how feasible this is. Once retired, if I find myself bored I may look into this. The trick is finding applications where little storage is required, and one can get a high system utilization during the peak sunlight hours.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by hikernut

I've done a bit of discounted cash flow analysis on PV. Based on that little experience, I'd be pretty surprised if it ever makes economic sense to install a system if the homeowner is getting paid a wholesale rate for power that's pushed onto the grid.

Assuming a person is doing it for financial reasons, one is left with trying to build a system that is not grid-connected. Even though I'm an EE, I don't know enough about power systems to say how feasible this is. Once retired, if I find myself bored I may look into this. The trick is finding applications where little storage is required, and one can get a high system utilization during the peak sunlight hours.

The problem is most solar salespeople make things so convoluted, that you never really know what you are getting and the true cost. It seems like you roll the dice. I've seen people who are pleased with what they got, and I've also seen people absolutely screwed.

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

The problem is most solar salespeople make things so convoluted, that you never really know what you are getting and the true cost.

Unfortunate, but certainly not surprising. Wife and I will move once more. After that move I'll take a look at what's available.

I think the future of solar is at the utility scale and business scale. Putting up small systems on residential roofs seems incredibly inefficient and labor intensive.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

The problem is most solar salespeople make things so convoluted, that you never really know what you are getting and the true cost. It seems like you roll the dice. I've seen people who are pleased with what they got, and I've also seen people absolutely screwed.

That's why its so important to go with the right company, and not just the cheapest, which is what so many people do.

Solar is somewhat complicated here in AZ for both APS and especially for SRP that many solar companies and reps don't fully understand it or what they are selling.

[Gosh]

Your first mistake was buying a house in APS territory. Houses in SRP territory ive heard are worth more, because people dont want to deal with APS. They seem to be worse for solar. I put solar panels on my house 1 month before SRP added new fees. I am grandfathered in for the next 20 years, and its transferable. I dont have to pay any additional fees. I use net metering. It is great. Next time buy a house in SRP territory. I have no idea how many people are like me, grandfathered in for 20 years.

[gsm113]

Originally Posted by Gosh

Your first mistake was buying a house in APS territory. Houses in SRP territory ive heard are worth more, because people dont want to deal with APS. They seem to be worse for solar. I put solar panels on my house 1 month before SRP added new fees. I am grandfathered in for the next 20 years, and its transferable. I dont have to pay any additional fees. I use net metering. It is great. Next time buy a house in SRP territory. I have no idea how many people are like me, grandfathered in for 20 years.

I'm not a real estate expert, but I've never heard of valuation differences attributable to which electric utility happens to service your area.