climbing, hip hop, and sustainability (Phoenix, Scottsdale: co-op, how much, neighborhoods)

[toyon]

...such are the things im into, and what im looking for before i decide to move to Phoenix to work on the Tonto NF.

I've been around (Boston, OC, norCal, Fort Collins, Chicago). I know the hard adjustments will be the intense heat, and the car-centric mode of transit. Please indulge me on why Phoenix is great for a 30 year old looking for authentic experiences.

Also,
What are the hip neighborhoods to live in?
How much does 24/7 AC cost per month (need to budget this...)?
Dry heat is tolerable, but what about the moonsoon season?
Farmers markets?
Phoenix is huge. Where is bike commuting practical?

If you feel where I'm coming from ANY info is helpful.

-st

[exit2lef]

Your subject line sure got my attention. Those three don't usually go together in one sentence.

Hip neighborhoods -- really depends on your definition. The most common answers would be Tempe (north of the 60 Freeway) if you want a college-town feel, Old Town Scottsdale if you want lots of nightlife in walking distance, and Downtown Phoenix if you are looking to be an edgy urban pioneer.

AC costs -- depends on the square footage. The local utilities usually offer a program that allows you to have a flat-rate monthly payment after one year of usage. That allows you to budget more easily and avoid peaks and valleys in your electric bills.

Monsoon -- uncomfortable. There's no getting around that. The one nice thing is that the monsoon season offers a break from the intense bright sunshine of May and June, which are virtually cloudless.

Farmer's markets -- The best known is the Downtown Phoenix Public Market, which operates Saturday mornings and Wednesday evenings. There are some other neighborhoods market around the area. None are spectacular in terms of produce selection, especially in the summer. At most of them, arts-and-crafts vendors outnumber produce vendors. Still, the Downtown market is a fun place to be on a Saturday morning.

Bike commuting -- most practical in Tempe probably. There are also some portions of Central Phoenix where I think it would be feasible. Keep in mind that Valley Metro buses, as well as light rail trains that will start operating in December, have bike racks, making a combined transit/bike commute feasible in some cases.

[crewbank]

Commuting to the Tonto NF? That's a long bike ride! I assume you'll have some sort of a gig here too, but if you want easy access to the park, stick to the east valley. Tempe/Scottsdale is about as hip as you'll get in these parts, and only 1 hour from Payson at the north end of Tonto.

[toyon]

thanks silverbear. im surprised about the farmer's market - AZ is one of the top ag states, and phoenix has enough $ to support a thriving sustainable food market. I'll check out rents in the neighborhoods you suggested. since my subject line caught your eye, anything else to add about the climbing scene or the quality of live shows? i'd be great to find some bar's that spin good beats (not meaning nightclubs, here).

crewbank - the tonto hq is right enxt to the 202/ I-10 x-section. so that's where i'd commute to in the am, then head up to the forest from there. tempe looks close on the map... how bad is traffic between ASU area and the 202 / 10 junction?

i know AZ has a lot of recreation, but gas aint gettin any cheaper. how much is there to climb/hike/bike within an hour's drive? 2 hours...?

thanks,
-st

[crewbank]

Looks like from Tempe proper to 2324 E. McDowell would be about 15-20 min. max, and only that because you'd be with rush hour traffic. If you can get on the road before 7 AM, it's much faster. If you're a fast rider, you could bike this in probably about the same amount of time, and it's a nice ride through Papago park and some beautiful native desert.

As for outdoors stuff, in town (30 minutes or less) there's always South Mountain (hiking, climbing, road/mountain biking), Camelback (some hairy climbs on sandstone...5.10+ with nice exposure), Squaw Peak (Biking, hiking), and my favorite, the Superstition Wilderness about 45 minutes east of Tempe off the 60. Very quiet and huge if you go back into the Superstitions. Weaver's Needle is a fun climb with nice views, and no ropes necessary if you're experienced.

Keep in mind that we are typically over 100 from mid-May thru September, but with thin blood, and lots of water and sunscreen, I find it pretty tolerable once you get away from the liquid Phoenix asphalt. The rest of the year it's beautiful.

[allio27]

Hey toyon -

What you're looking for most resembles downtown Phoenix. I wouldn't exactly compare it to a city like Seattle or San Fran, but it's coming up. Slowly, but very surely.

The Farmers Market is decent. It'll probably have everything you need produce-wise, but it's not really all that big, and it's combined with hand made crafts and the like.

If you're looking for hip hop, the closest you're going to find is also Phoenix. On the first friday of every month all the local art galleries open up and there's always a good turn out of people. Many times there were some pretty decent hip hop artists performing for the passers-by. It's here... you just have to look and find them. Pioneer - It's a good word for people who discover the cultural growth of Downtown Phoenix.

[exit2lef]

Hiking -- Phoenix is blessed with hundreds of miles of trails right within city limits. You can find basic hikes to last a few hours in the Phoenix Moutains Preserve. More challenging day-long hikes are available an hour from town, and many of them are in -- you guessed it -- The Tonto National Forest.

TNF office -- I've passed by there many times. It's not in a great area, and McDowell Rd isn't very bike friendly. It's six lanes of heavy traffic. If you prefer not to drive to work, you could commute via Valley Metro routes 70 (24th St.) or 17 (McDowell Rd.). Both will connect to light rail once it becomes operational.

[toyon]

thanks allio, sounds like you've got a pulse of the beat. Based on some snooping, Im guessing Roosevelt area is where you're talking about? Im going to look there, and Tempe. Proximity to a co-op or whole foods-style grocery store is a big plus, but given Phoenix' layout, i know I cant have it all. If there's a good lcoa lbkery, that'll go a loooong way.

crewbank - thanks for the tips on climbing outdoors. looks like Scottsdale has a great rock gym but plastic isnt my style.

silverback - any criticisms of TNF? sounds like you know it well. my impression is its heavily impacted around the water sources and virtually untravelled in the rugged backcountry? taking this job will be kinda like a blind date - except im stuck with her for better or worse.

your comments are much appreciated and have allayed my fears enough to make the plunge. in the end, it's all about community. gracias.
-st

[exit2lef]

Actually, I've barely scratched the surface of TNF because of its vastness. From what I've seen, there are definitely a few problem areas, but there area also extensive areas of almost untouched wilderness.

[allio27]

We have Whole foods, Trader Joes, Sprouts, Fresh & Easy... just to name some of the main grocery stores in the area that deel with organic and freshness.

A little more insight:

Tempe = Younger college people, young culture.
Phoenix = Older people, more art influence, more (better) live music, newer culture.

As stated before, the lightrail will be runnung by the end of the year so the transit between Phx. and Tempe will be a piece of cake. I'd hate to see you go into Tempe and be surrounded by college frat boys. Not too hip hop... (no offense Frat boys)