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So what you're saying is: you're all in favor of change, but you prefer Maricopa County to remain exactly the same as it is. Interesting.
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On the contrary, I have rebutted your claims that the county has effective management ... specifically your statements about Maricopa Association of Governments, and how they set "quality standards". MAG (along with ADOT) have grossly mismanaged transportation funds for the Phoenix area, and I already provided examples of this. BTW, does anybody wonder why ground hasn't been broken on the highly anticipated Interstate 11? The original 1985 freeway tax included funding for the Grand Expressway, which would have easily been an early start to I11. Grand Expressway was scrapped many years ago because ADOT & MAG didn't budget properly. So Grand Avenue remains the same as it has been for decades, which has become a trashy eyesore with long stoplights and a few ineffective overpasses, instead of the freeway which it should have been.
The point is: Maricopa County's enormous size hasn't done anything to improve infrastructure projects. If anything, it has resulted in more delays & waste. If MAG's function is standardizing infrastructure across city boundaries, this would mainly include Phoenix and the surrounding suburbs. Places like Wickenburg, Gila Bend, Tonopah, Rio Verde, Fort McDowell, and Sunflower have little to no interest in our freeway, mass transit, or stadium developments ... just as we don't have any interest in their rural way of life. Two completely separate lifestyles, which is one reason why the county should be separated.
Also, while splitting the counties would require more management jobs, they don't necessarily have to be high salaried. Costs could easily be cut by reducing the salaries of these top level positions, as well as all the extra perks they receive. Being a government employee shouldn't be a guaranteed lifetime security blanket.
Yes, the city of Phoenix & many of the suburbs are also too large in area, and should be deannexed for a lot of the same reasons why Maricopa County should be condensed. Those who choose to live in far north Phoenix (Norterra, Desert Hills, etc.) likely do so because they don't want to be part of the main city. Well, I'm sorry, but those people who want to be away from Phoenix, but still live within the Phoenix city limits and accept Phoenix's city services are pure hypocrites.
You’re idea of what the local government is seems off. It’s run of the mill mundane office work type stuff.
MAG is a resource. It sets standards and assists cities and towns on certain types of projects. MAG does not do the infrastructure projects themselves. MAG does create engineering standards, options, and guidance for public works projects. Think mundane things like how much differential in sidewalk slabs warrants replacement or how wide alleys are supposed to be.
In practice MAG looks more like this: a small town wants to construct a landscape area in front of a shopping mall. MAG would help the town public works department (probably 5 people) with processing paperwork and giving them guidance so when they bid the project the contract tells the contractor exactly what to do and how to do it.
A more complex task might be a water pipe project where a large city owns the water infrastructure and leases water to another town but the town owns the land around the easement. The project requires tearing apart roads. MAG helps these two entities do this project. It helps them arrange cost sharing, who pays for what and how to bid the project, and how it needs to be done.
This is a good thing. It keeps our infrastructure consistent and this type of work practical. Our roads and sidewalks are very nicely laid out and easy to figure out compared to a lot of larger cities. It also helps smaller towns complete complicated projects.
You’re idea of what the local government is seems off. It’s run of the mill mundane office work type stuff.
MAG is a resource. It sets standards and assists cities and towns on certain types of projects. MAG does not do the infrastructure projects themselves. MAG does create engineering standards, options, and guidance for public works projects. Think mundane things like how much differential in sidewalk slabs warrants replacement or how wide alleys are supposed to be.
In practice MAG looks more like this: a small town wants to construct a landscape area in front of a shopping mall. MAG would help the town public works department (probably 5 people) with processing paperwork and giving them guidance so when they bid the project the contract tells the contractor exactly what to do and how to do it.
A more complex task might be a water pipe project where a large city owns the water infrastructure and leases water to another town but the town owns the land around the easement. The project requires tearing apart roads. MAG helps these two entities do this project. It helps them arrange cost sharing, who pays for what and how to bid the project, and how it needs to be done.
This is a good thing. It keeps our infrastructure consistent and this type of work practical. Our roads and sidewalks are very nicely laid out and easy to figure out compared to a lot of larger cities. It also helps smaller towns complete complicated projects.
You wrote 4 paragraphs on how MAG operates and what their purpose is, which I'm already aware of. You've failed to address the issue of why Maricopa County needs to remain the size that it has for a number of decades, despite the fact that it is no longer a rural county like it was over 50 years ago. How has Maricopa County's gargantuan size accelerated freeway construction? Before you answer that, perhaps look into why the Grand Expressway was nixed from the original 231 miles promised way back in the 1980s. And for that matter, what's the construction status on the Tres Rios Freeway which was approved by voters in 2004? Why was rubberized asphalt allowed to be a multi million dollar boondoggle all these years?
You wrote 4 paragraphs on how MAG operates and what their purpose is, which I'm already aware of. You've failed to address the issue of why Maricopa County needs to remain the size that it has for a number of decades, despite the fact that it is no longer a rural county like it was over 50 years ago. How has Maricopa County's gargantuan size accelerated freeway construction? Before you answer that, perhaps look into why the Grand Expressway was nixed from the original 231 miles promised way back in the 1980s. And for that matter, what's the construction status on the Tres Rios Freeway which was approved by voters in 2004? Why was rubberized asphalt allowed to be a multi million dollar boondoggle all these years?
You continue to bring up unpopular and still unpopular freeway projects. No one wants to tear through historic Glendale, and no one wants a reliever freeway that runs over our only river confluence, let alone alongside our major river for almost its whole riverside. The 202 extension was our last major freeway project and that was significantly unpopular by not only the GRIC but by Ahwatukee and Phoenix residents. The 303 was also considered questionable by many residents as well as being useful.
Meanwhile, reducing water bills by standardizing pipe work is certainly a very popular thing that MAG does, given that all the cities at the end of the day share water with each other one way or another.
Ask voters why they prioritized had a quiet commute home over the expense of the urban heat island and putting that money to benefit their children or something. I don’t disagree with you regarding asphalt but I’m failing to see how that’s relevant here.
Light rail expansion has been approved twice by the city of Phoenix but I don’t see you talking about that. Governments pull shady stuff like this all the time where they don’t meet promises because of extreme lobbying continuing to interfere even after losing to voters. None of that has anything to do with the amount of square miles Maricopa County or Manhattan County have, it’s the political system.
One thing we should have learned from the last 2 years and recent events in Ukraine. Politicians do not give a shi% about what their constituents think, want, or need. It's fun to pretend that we have a voice on discussion boards, social media, etc., but the hard reality - 99% of people in the US are resented and looked down on by the 1% who actually control everything.
Actually, you needed to add a qualifier. Politicians only care what constituents think, want, or need if they are politically motivated to do so. Since you brought up Ukraine, let's see how politicians are easily influenced. The cost of a barrel of oil is going up. And since the politicians are afraid of $5 a gallon gas, Biden's team is opening up a face-to-face dialog with Saudia Arabia (remember their killer Prince), Venezuela (cut off because of democracy suppression), and Iran (Nuclear agreement)? $5 a gallon gas will upset midterms. And exclusively because of it, they DO give "two-****s".
So, in other words, the usual Democrat battle cry of endless what ifs that often don't pan out the way they claim it will anyways. If you're so concerned about the Republican vote diluting the Democrat vote, then maybe the Democrat vote has too much power already. Based off this map, it would appear that a tiny little section of Phoenix containing a large number of Democrats is overpowering a much larger section of Republicans already. Are we paying for freeway improvements in Yavapai, Pima, Pinal or Gila counties now? Why would this split be any different? I spent a lot of time in Michigan around Detroit, where one of the worst public transit systems in the country exists. Yet they had two bus systems that nearly seamlessly transfered between Detroit city buses, and the SMART that spanned 3 different counties with a service area larger than that of Phoenix's system. This really just sounds a lot more like a bunch of Democrats throwing a hissy fit over losing their unfair advantage at the polls.... Edit.... Tried breaking this into paragraphs 3 times... For whatever reason, the forum keeps refusing it, lol
No joke, what are you talking about? What unfair advantage do Democrats have at the polls? Do their votes count for 2 or something?
Also, you understand that just because the red area is larger than the blue area doesn't mean that the red area automatically wins right?
Counties with large populations and large land masses are overrun with government bureaucracy. Maricopa is THE poster child of a county which is excessively large, and should have been broken up many years ago. Splitting them into separate counties would create additional government bodies, but reduce the bloatedness of the existing county governments. Incidentally, it's the school taxes I'm against, and mostly because of the amount of money collected per property owner, especially the homeowners who don't have children in the public system.
I've worked for the government. In terms of bloat, having one Maricopa County government is better than having 4 separate county governments.
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Ah, but you're forgetting something regarding infrastructure improvements. Initiatives such as light rail extensions are most often decided by county voters. Since light rail is mainly an urban project, it would overwhelmingly be supported by voters in Phoenix & Tempe ... not so much by people in Fountain Hills or the Sun Cities. What sense does it make for the ones in suburban/exurban locations to support & pay for light rail when it doesn't directly benefit them? Why would Billy Bob who lives on a ranch in far western Maricopa County have any interest in Phoenix mass transit projects? Billy Bob should be in a separate rural county.
Paying for public transit does benefit them, even if they never take it. It reduces traffic on roads, lowers the impact of travel on the environment, and gives them an option to avoid exorbitant parking fees when travelling to more centrally-located venues.
One could say the same thing about construction, maintenance, and improvement of county roads near Billy Bob's ranch. I never drive on them so why should my taxes go toward them. He's pretty much the only one using them, let his money fix it.
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The one thing I really dislike about this proposal is the names of the new counties. Why must everything be a tribal name?! Perhaps keep Maricopa for one of the county names, but have it include the east Valley ... and have it take up the part of Pinal County that includes the city of Maricopa. I wouldn't mind Phoenix being an independent city, but the west Valley could be its own county, and Glendale County sounds appropriate for the title. The far western parts should be separated as well (the rural areas which include Wickenburg, Tonopah, and Gila Bend).
IMO Glendale County is a pretty boring name. At least the tribal county names have some flair.
The proposal is dead as of about a month ago, mainly because the House Speaker is opposed to it. I personally wasn't in favor of the political reasons behind it, nor did I like the assigned names of the "new" counties. I still am in favor of splitting Maricopa County, but it could be done as a 3 or 4 way split with the entire city of Phoenix being part of one county (or an independent city). But no matter what happens, an idea like this will always be shot down by those who want to keep things exactly the same as they were a half century ago ... even though Maricopa County's population & demographics have dramatically changed in that time period, and a county this size no longer is as effective like it once was.
The proposal is dead as of about a month ago, mainly because the House Speaker is opposed to it. I personally wasn't in favor of the political reasons behind it, nor did I like the assigned names of the "new" counties. I still am in favor of splitting Maricopa County, but it could be done as a 3 or 4 way split with the entire city of Phoenix being part of one county (or an independent city). But no matter what happens, an idea like this will always be shot down by those who want to keep things exactly the same as they were a half century ago ... even though Maricopa County's population & demographics have dramatically changed in that time period, and a county this size no longer is as effective like it once was.
Never expected it to pass either. I still believe city of Phoenix should be its own consolidated city-county in order to function more efficiently than one ginormous county.
“Under House Bill 2787, which was introduced by nine GOP state lawmakers, Maricopa County will be split up into four smaller counties, with Maricopa County occupying most of Avondale, Glendale, Phoenix, and Tempe.
The other three counties, under the bill, will be named Hohokam County, Mogollon County and O'Odham County. Hohokam County will include the East Valley, including Chandler and Mesa, while Mogollon County will include Scottsdale, north Phoenix, and Peoria. O'Odham County will include the western parts of Maricopa County, as it is currently constituted.”
and so it begins to increase our taxes with added burdens/$$$ for municipalities from city hall, mayor, police, fire, school superintendent, etc. We should learn from other states that have tons of counties (eg, NJ) and look at why they're taxed so high.
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