Arizona falls to 46th for job growth... (Phoenix, Florence: real estate market, new house)

[silverbear]

Small business is important because most large Phoenix-based companies started as small businesses and then grew large. That's a more likely scenario for economic development than convincing established companies to move lock, stock, and barrel from one city to another. That's very rare, and when it does occur (e.g. Boeing's move from Seattle to Chicago), it's usually more symbolic than anything else.

Sure, I think that fcorrales80 gets carried away with the Phoenix boosterism, but his point about small business is well taken. And in response to "enough with the small business hype," I say, "enough with the Seattle hype." I'm sick and tired of having Phoenix compared to that one city. Let's broaden our horizons.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Small business is important because most large Phoenix-based companies started as small businesses and then grew large.

And that, I have no problem with. The only sad thing about smaller businesses based in Phoenix that became big is many of them were swallowed up by larger firms based in other cities ... or worse, other countries. A good example is Circle K. You have a valid point about small business needing to grow to become successful, but thier HQs should remain here. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case.

Originally Posted by silverbear

That's a more likely scenario for economic development than convincing established companies to move lock, stock, and barrel from one city to another. That's very rare, and when it does occur (e.g. Boeing's move from Seattle to Chicago), it's usually more symbolic than anything else.

One very reputable large firm moved from Chicago to Phoenix in the 1970s, and that was the Dial Corporation (makers of Dial Soap, Purex, and other well known household products). I don't know if that was symbolic, but it sure gave a boost to the Phoenix job market at the time. What puzzles me is why more large corporations don't relocate to Phoenix. We're supposed to be an ideal spot for many transplants to move here, so why don't the big firms do the same?

Originally Posted by silverbear

And in response to "enough with the small business hype," I say, "enough with the Seattle hype." I'm sick and tired of having Phoenix compared to that one city. Let's broaden our horizons.

Phoenix is compared to Seattle quite often most likely because those two cities are so much the opposite of each other. For instance: Phoenix has an over abundance of heat & sunshine, while Seattle has an over abundance of clouds & drizzle. In fact, they say that if it's sunny in Phoenix, it's probably raining in Seattle (and vice versa).

I agree that we should broaden our horizons. Phoenix is now such a major metropolitan area (and will likely keep growing rapidly) that we can no longer afford to base our economy on things like small business, real estate, sunny skies, and WalMart stores. If Phoenix really wants to be known as more than just a hot desert, it needs to be more of a world player. Our economy is no longer just local or even national. We are a world market, and we have to keep up, or we will lose in the long run.

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

And that, I have no problem with. The only sad thing about smaller businesses based in Phoenix that became big is many of them were swallowed up by larger firms based in other cities ... or worse, other countries. A good example is Circle K. You have a valid point about small business needing to grow to become successful, but thier HQs should remain here. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case.



One very reputable large firm moved from Chicago to Phoenix in the 1970s, and that was the Dial Corporation (makers of Dial Soap, Purex, and other well known household products). I don't know if that was symbolic, but it sure gave a boost to the Phoenix job market at the time. What puzzles me is why more large corporations don't relocate to Phoenix. We're supposed to be an ideal spot for many transplants to move here, so why don't the big firms do the same?

Actually, many Phoenix-based companies have stayed here as they grew. I've mentioned them in previous threads, but as a refresher some of the stars include US Airways and Apollo Group.

As for Dial, that was a coup for Phoenix, although its effect has been diluted over time with the split between Viad and Dial and the spinoff of Greyhound bus lines.

In general, individuals relocate much more readily than corporations. A relocation of a corporate headquarters, absent a merger or acquisition, is something that happens to a city once a decade at most. I don't think it can be relied on as an economic development strategy.

Finally, I'd say that "broadening our horizons" can include not always following the templates of media-hyped cities like Austin and Seattle. I'm just so sick of hearing about those two cities that I tune out comparisons with them. It's fine to want Phoenix to assume a more prominent role in the world economy, but there are any number of ways that can occur.

[scongress1234]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

The number shocked me, too. I know Arizona was in the top couple of spots for years, and to drop to almost dead last is a bit, I don't know.
Our unemployment rate however is at 3.9% compared to 5.5% nationally.

Keep in mind that "growth" is a fluid concept...more important, for now, is the current unemployment rate, but, as a future indicator, JG could be a factor in jacking up that rate....

One thing..I would vouchsafe that a huge part of it is related to the RE fallout.....so many jobs were tied to it, and Phoenix relied on growth paradoxically for jobs......in a weird sense, growth is not a great long-run job creator, as it is so hard to maintain it. Vegas is just about the only city able to pull that off for decades, for its own unique reasons, and Phoenix is not Vegas.....which is not such a bad thing...

[scongress1234]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Actually, many Phoenix-based companies have stayed here as they grew. I've mentioned them in previous threads, but as a refresher some of the stars include US Airways and Apollo Group.

As for Dial, that was a coup for Phoenix, although its effect has been diluted over time with the split between Viad and Dial and the spinoff of Greyhound bus lines.

In general, individuals relocate much more readily than corporations. A relocation of a corporate headquarters, absent a merger or acquisition, is something that happens to a city once a decade at most. I don't think it can be relied on as an economic development strategy.

Finally, I'd say that "broadening our horizons" can include not always following the templates of media-hyped cities like Austin and Seattle. I'm just so sick of hearing about those two cities that I tune out comparisons with them. It's fine to want Phoenix to assume a more prominent role in the world economy, but there are any number of ways that can occur.

Also, for what its worth, Phoenix is far stronger economically than Austin...more complete, larger, and built to last...Austin is as good as its hype, and don't think it will last forever...and yes, I'm from Austin....
the most overhyped metro in the history of civilization...

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by usc619

Fcorrales80 I have to say I admire the pro attitude for your city(i'm all for that) but I have to say I'm a little offended by that fact that every time someone post valid info that may not shed a positive on Phoenix you always come back with a (pro Phoenix)spin job backed up by outdated polls and opinions. Do you really think people are that dumb? I have no dog in this either way, but hey lets call a spade a spade. Phoenix is not a good place to live right now period.
Btw; I read on another post that you stated that you wish you would have went to ucla, Please do us Real Trojans a favor and don't ever refer to your self as a USC grad, You wanabe little bruin. FO!

Trust me, if I could do my undergrad years over, I would never have gone to USC. Again, I DID not "bash" USC and this is just my opinion (and I did like the school in general). However, because of personal reasons, things I learned later after graduating, and after attending other schools for grad. work I would have rather gone to UCLA if I had to choose another school in So. Cal. After having been exposed to other schools, I would not have gone to any school in that region of the U.S. I also remember saying I enjoyed Columbia U, much more.

And how can you say that people post valid info if what they say is not supported by the facts? Not only does wrong information commit a disservice to those trying to learn what is really happening but it also causes people to stereotype and remain misinformed. And just for your information, I do not post opinion or outdated "polls." The information I post is actually up to date data that is intended to inform those that would otherwise not be exposed to such information.

I hope that what I have posted does in fact help the majority of people looking for accurate and up-to-date information and not harmful misinformation that is often stereotypes and exaggerations. Another thing I really try to avoid, and stopped myself doing, is bashing another city for a reaction like others do in the Phoenix forums, nor would I lie about another city and say something like, "most people in Chicago, Houston, Dallas, etc. are miserable, rude, underpaid, live in the ghetto, or that the cities are generally ugly." Having been caught up in the "debates" that sometimes become mud-slinging contests, I have said some things I probably wouldn't have, but being human and being proud of the cities I identify with, Phoenix being number one, Seattle being no. 2, then I am like most who would fit in a jab here and there. But some of the things people post about Phoenix go beyond that.

I am aware of the problems in Phoenix and I by no means think it is the best city in terms of quality of life or ills that need to be fixed, but I also am aware that it is by no means the worst, near the worst, or dismal as others would like to make it.

As for the "enough" with the small business hype that someone opined I should abandon, all I have to say is that is it is impossible to do so and would be the equivalent of asking those cities that have a large number of Fortune 500's to abandon the idea that those companies are relevant to their economy. I think it was "Valley Native" who posted that opinion and asked me why I think it is such an important segment in Phoenix's economy. This poster also said that it would be much more important for Phoenix to lure more corporations in the form of Fortune 500's to Phoenix. I disagree and find small businesses extremely important here because (and a very big reason) Fortune 500's tend to not move headquarters or large scale operations, small businesses help to diversify the economy, small business grow into big business overtime, and simply because this segment of the economy does offer benefits that are competative and many times out-perform big corporations, and pay wages that allow for Phoenix, and Arizona to have incomes competitive with other cities and states. So while some one who owns a small business, works for one, etc. will not build wealth comparable to Gates, most of those who work for big companies and the 500's also do not build this type of wealth...in fact only a handful of employees become rich. This poster also wanted to equate small businesses with handyman services and mom and pop shops, and while those are a type of small business, that is not what I am referring to. The "small businesses" that provide the Valley's residents with a large portion of jobs and the largest rate of growth are those that not only employ under 100 people, but also those that employ hundreds of people, and the mid-sized companies that employ larger numbers as well: Advertising firms, professional development firms, law firms, medical firms, research firms, financial services (outside of real-estate), to name a few of those small businesses that help to diversify the region's economy.

[Valley Native]

I never said small businesses weren't important. I just don't think that our economy should be reliant on small businesss more than the larger firms ... just like I don't believe that we should be so dependent on real estate or housing construction like we have been. Small businesses are excellent if you can make them work, and eventually turn them into large, successful corporations. However, many times that is not the case.

Mainly, we have to consider the SIZE of the area. Population wise, Phoenix's metro area is almost right up there now with the San Franciscos, the Atlantas, the Bostons, and the Houstons of America. All those places are headquarters to a plethora of large corporations with diverse industries ... many of which are Fortune 500 firms. Phoenix is just not keeping up with the large business growth that helps an area become world class and globally competitive. Small & mid sized firms are fine, but they shouldn't be the dominant employment base of such a large metro area.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I never said small businesses weren't important. I just don't think that our economy should be reliant on small businesss more than the larger firms ... just like I don't believe that we should be so dependent on real estate or housing construction like we have been. Small businesses are excellent if you can make them work, and eventually turn them into large, successful corporations. However, many times that is not the case.

Mainly, we have to consider the SIZE of the area. Population wise, Phoenix's metro area is almost right up there now with the San Franciscos, the Atlantas, the Bostons, and the Houstons of America. All those places are headquarters to a plethora of large corporations with diverse industries ... many of which are Fortune 500 firms. Phoenix is just not keeping up with the large business growth that helps an area become world class and globally competitive. Small & mid sized firms are fine, but they shouldn't be the dominant employment base of such a large metro area.

First of all, the American economy was built on small firms; capitalism is founded on competition from a wide array of businesses competing for more business. You say that most small businesses are not successful and faulter...well that is true, however, in Phoenix that is not the case. One very important reason is because of the competition and lack of large monopolistic firms that suck the life out of the small businessmen and women. In Phoenix, these people are given a chance to become something that other cities with big corporate axmen (CEO's) and strong political ties would have thrown to the wolves.

If you stay informed and read important business journals (international journals as well) like The Economist, Wall Street Journal, The Entrepenuer, etc. to name a few you will learn that small businesses are some of the most internationally connected entities in operation because their success depends on growing beyond city, state, and national boundaries. This is what has given Phoenix an international reputation and has drawn Europeans, Asians and now Middle Easterners (Dubai, Saudi Arabia) to Phoenix: They see an opportunity to place businesses here and branch out into the American economy without having to "pay dividends" to the powerhouse, greedy large corporation. I happen to work for one of many mid-size German firms in the Phoenix area that is not well known by most Phoenicians, but has strong ties to firms in NYC, Frankfurt, and Berlin. It is sad how little of the Phoenix and Arizona populace know of its (Phoenix's) reputation beyond the U.S.

[jd433]

Phoenix needs some luck right now I know small businesses help but it really needs help right now. Being in almost last place for jobs is pretty bad.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by jd433

Phoenix needs some luck right now I know small businesses help but it really needs help right now. Being in almost last place for jobs is pretty bad.

Haven't we already been over this? Really, you need to stop because you continue to bring up information that is irrelevant and incorrect.