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Ugly, IMO. Im glad to see them trying to do something downtown, but who wants to live down there when theres nothing to do? They should use those lots to build a theatre (not movie), perhaps a nice city park, some unique shopping experience, something along those lines. And theyre making no attempt to blend the buildings with PHX's surroundings. Theyre ugly and will stick out like a sore thumb. One of the things I like about PHX is how most of the buildings are designed to blend into the Sonoran Desert, to me thats unique! Those buildings look no different than the ones you see along Miami Beach. Blech.
Cmon Phoenix!!!!!!! Do something unique!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Time to find a soul and build upon it, not expand with blah buildings and blah neighborhoods! Build a amusement park, or a water park, do something to draw people downtown! Build a city center! Make something unique, like a PHX cultural center, complete with interactions and a observatory, something!?!?!
That water park Idea would be a hell of a idea to put in Dtwn Phx.
Think, after walking around for awhile in dtwn Phx, It would be nice to know that there is a place to "cool off at". Besides that is something the ASU downtown students I am sure, would be glad to "PARTY AT", since the main ASU campus has tempe town lake.
Denver (comparable to Phx) has a "SIX FLAGS" amusement park in thier downtown.
So phx should have one of its own such as a "WATERPARK", Or maybe the stupid NIMBYS will oppose it because they dont know how to swim or are afraid of drowning, so they figure why support a water park!
Otherwise, another thing that Dtwn Phx needs is S H A D E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dtwn is virtually treeless except for the "deck park".
BUT INSTEAD, places like Dtwn Sacramento Ca. is saturated with shade.
As a matter of fact, the dtwn streets are like driving thru tunnels ,thats right, tunnels, because there are so many trees. And the trees there are not natural, they have been planted there bunches at a time (over the years)
CHECK IT OUT AT: webshots.com and type in dtwn sacramento.
And really, that city doesnt really need all that shade because the city has a cool climate.
The temp. averages between 80 and 90 degrees (IN SUMMER)otherwise you can expect anyday in the to be around or below 80 degrees.
All that shade should be in hot places like "Dtwn." Phx.
I agree with you 100%. These useless, smelly good for nothing skumbags, are destroying downtown to some extent.
For instance, the site that the "W" hotel was to be built on (the pile of rubble called sun merc), where was these "preservationists" before this hotel proposal. You didnt see them hanging around or inside the building to take photos or to have fun. As a matter of fact it was being used as a storage unit for the phoenix suns "stuff".
Since sarver owns the land, he should have had enough brian power to buy out these sun merc preservation skumbags and put them in a doungeon where they can meet all thier other skid row "rats".
The Phoenix government acts like cowards when it comes to the brainless nimby recluses.
If they dont like progress, then they should move to northern alaska or canada, where they will have all the space in the world to float their reclusive skumbag selves, and dont have to worry about growth or freeways or highrises or even more people.
Bravo!!! Your post was 100% correct on all points. The so called "preservationists" are really no more than a clan of old f.a.r.t.s. (an acronym I came up with standing for fanatically against relatively tall structures). Basically, they're a vocal minority of people whose only livelihood is protesting progress.
You're also right about the powers that be who cave in to this loudmouthed clan of NIMBYs. Such was the case in the Sun Mercantile lawsuit: the judge ruled in favor of the preservationists ... so the W Hotel is a no go. If this "Tang family" was so concerned about preserving their Phoenix Chinese culture, then why didn't they turn the old building into something worthwhile? Or better yet, why don't they get off their namby pamby NIMBY butts and create a "Chinatown" for Phoenix?!
These NIMBY idiots should just be ignored. If we simply treat them as the meaningless bozos that they are, perhaps they'll shut up and crawl back under their rocks ... or leave town once and for all!
That water park Idea would be a hell of a idea to put in Dtwn Phx.
Think, after walking around for awhile in dtwn Phx, It would be nice to know that there is a place to "cool off at". Besides that is something the ASU downtown students I am sure, would be glad to "PARTY AT", since the main ASU campus has tempe town lake.
Denver (comparable to Phx) has a "SIX FLAGS" amusement park in thier downtown.
So phx should have one of its own such as a "WATERPARK", Or maybe the stupid NIMBYS will oppose it because they dont know how to swim or are afraid of drowning, so they figure why support a water park!
Otherwise, another thing that Dtwn Phx needs is S H A D E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dtwn is virtually treeless except for the "deck park".
BUT INSTEAD, places like Dtwn Sacramento Ca. is saturated with shade.
As a matter of fact, the dtwn streets are like driving thru tunnels ,thats right, tunnels, because there are so many trees. And the trees there are not natural, they have been planted there bunches at a time (over the years)
CHECK IT OUT AT: webshots.com and type in dtwn sacramento.
And really, that city doesnt really need all that shade because the city has a cool climate.
The temp. averages between 80 and 90 degrees (IN SUMMER)otherwise you can expect anyday in the to be around or below 80 degrees.
All that shade should be in hot places like "Dtwn." Phx.
I agree about the shade. I was just reading about the growth of downtown Phoenix today in a decorating magazine of all places. It was talking about the addition of lofts and condos, and how people really do love it there. But the one complaint (or rather suggestion) that people had was that there should be more shade trees added. One lady was saying she couldn't walk her dog in the daytime due to the hot sidewalk. I believe more parks would help this area also.
This post makes me really happy. I am moving to Phoenix early next year from Los Angeles and I love hearing about the growth. I lived in Scottsdale briefly in 2003 and have been visiting the valley regularly since. I am amazed at the constant growth and expansion the city and surrounding areas are constanly going through. Downtown Los Angeles is kind of going through its own revitalization, but they are taking old and turning it into new. L.A. still has a loooong way to go, though. Downtown Phoenix has SO much potential because it's not scummy, just kind of empty. And I think all the residental is just the beginning of a great new downtown area!
I wish they'd revise the design for Ciello Towers a bit and make the top floors not stick out so much! I know they wanted to put terraces on those floors, but for cryin' out loud, put terraces on all floors to make the buildings not look like a pair of big boxes sitting on top of smaller ones!
Besides, having terraces on all floors gives potential buyers more incentives to want to live there.
On the topic of shade downtown, the City of Phoenix has developed plans to incorporate an abundance of it throughout Copper Square in the form of shade trees, awnings, and public art. Thank god. They have also, and I'm quite excited about this, developed plans to blanket Copper Square in free wireless, much like what you get at Sky Harbor.
I personally am very excited about the development of downtown Phoenix. So excited, in fact, that I recently moved here. I don't know why anyone would think there isn't anything to do... You have professional baseball and basketball; Dodge, Orpheum, and Herberger Theatres; a nice, never-full movie theater (though it's AMC, so they don't show indies); the Phoenix Convention Center; Symphony Hall; the Arizona Science Center; the Phoenix Museum of History; Roosevelt Row, which features a number of unique, locally owned shops and art galleries (as well as the 1st and 3rd Friday art walks, which are free); and a number of reasonably priced bars and restaurants, most of which are locally owned. And it's all within walking distance. There's even a free shuttle, DASH, if it's too hot to walk.
This is not to mention the developments in progress, as well as the developments in the pipeline. Just the CityScape project alone, the largest private investment in the history of the city, would make me happy; but add to it the increasing ASU presence, the (amazingly ugly, but surely profitable) Sheraton hotel, the new public high school, the planned biomedical facilities, the expansion of the Convention Center, the light rail, the rehabilitation of the W Hotel, all the small businesses that are already popping up along the light rail route, all the new planned residential units, the massive re-zoning efforts promoting mixed-use development, and the renewed emphasis on funding science and technology (which has already resulted in the world class TGEN facility)... add all this up, along with the projects which will undoubtedly follow as a result of this intense activity, and you have not only a revitalized downtown, but a downtown that is truly remarkable.
Too bad it's so fashionable to diss downtown Phoenix. Nearly every critic I've encountered can rattle off the same three or four anti-downtown talking points, but they always give themselves away as ignorant when pressed. Like when they say Copper Square needs a theatre. Huh? Maybe what Copper Square needs is for people to attend the theatre, instead of complain about the absence of something that's actually there. Or like when they say there's no parking, when in fact there is an abundance of parking. Or like when they complain about prices, when in reality the bars and restaurants in downtown Phoenix—many of which are locally-owned—are almost uniformly cheaper than their counterparts in Tempe and Scottsdale. Or like when they mock the height of our tallest buildings, not realizing that Sky Harbor Airport is located nearby. For logical reasons, you don't build record-breaking skyscrapers in the flight paths of airplanes.
Sorry, but I just can't get over how negative some people are about downtown Phoenix, when I see it as positively exciting.
...Or like when they mock the height of our tallest buildings, not realizing that Sky Harbor Airport is located nearby. For logical reasons, you don't build record-breaking skyscrapers in the flight paths of airplanes.
Sorry, but I just can't get over how negative some people are about downtown Phoenix, when I see it as positively exciting.
I think the only reason we haven't had any "record breaking skyscrapers" built in downtown Phoenix was because of trends in the past. Not everybody wanted to be located in downtown Phoenix because having an office in Scottsdale or on the Camelback Corridor was just more fashionable and looked more impressive than one in downtown Phoenix, where just 15 years ago, there were a handful of high-rise office buildings surrounded by a lot of rundown areas. But that's changed significantly now and I hope that we continue to see more developments in downtown office space.
I don't think Sky Harbor is an issue anymore with modern Jetliners. When Runway 26 is used for take-offs (heading west), jets fly by about a half a mile away from the tallest building, and they're usually higher than 1000 feet above ground, even on days when the wind is calm, and when Runway 8 is used for landings (heading east) again, jets are usually quite a ways away from downtown. Of course if they need to build a skyscraper taller than 1000 feet, they can go further north on the Central Corridor south of McDowell.
I think the only reason we haven't had any "record breaking skyscrapers" built in downtown Phoenix was because of trends in the past. Not everybody wanted to be located in downtown Phoenix because having an office in Scottsdale or on the Camelback Corridor was just more fashionable and looked more impressive than one in downtown Phoenix, where just 15 years ago, there were a handful of high-rise office buildings surrounded by a lot of rundown areas. But that's changed significantly now and I hope that we continue to see more developments in downtown office space.
I don't think Sky Harbor is an issue anymore with modern Jetliners. When Runway 26 is used for take-offs (heading west), jets fly by about a half a mile away from the tallest building, and they're usually higher than 1000 feet above ground, even on days when the wind is calm, and when Runway 8 is used for landings (heading east) again, jets are usually quite a ways away from downtown. Of course if they need to build a skyscraper taller than 1000 feet, they can go further north on the Central Corridor south of McDowell.
While 'fashionability' may have a lot to do with which businesses build where, it has nothing to do with the height of buildings in downtown Phoenix, which are indeed restricted by law. And it has everything to do with the location of Sky Harbor. This article on azcentral.com discusses this: Airport spurs high-rise limits (broken link)
While 'fashionability' may have a lot to do with which businesses build where, it has nothing to do with the height of buildings in downtown Phoenix, which are indeed restricted by law. And it has everything to do with the location of Sky Harbor. This article on azcentral.com discusses this: Airport spurs high-rise limits (broken link)
From Indian School Rd in the north, to Baseline Rd to the south? I think the folks at the FAA need to revise these height limits. Those are pertinent to the old DC-6 and Constellation propeller airliners of the 1940's and 1950's, and you can definitely build a tower much taller than 40 stories north of Van Buren. I know a lot about aviation, and even a fully loaded Boeing 747-400 taking off from runway 26 (North runway) with all 4 engines at 90% thrust, 80% flaps, with 5 MPH wind from the west, can definitely lift the aircraft in its initial climb out of Sky Harbor's control area, and it'll be way above the 500-foot height ceiling as it goes by downtown Phoenix. I think what the FAA was concerned about was when an aircraft has to make an emergency turn to the north to go back to Sky Harbor, well there's plenty of room to turn to the south, turn east 78 degrees, north 347 degrees, then 258 degrees west for the pattern entry, glide slope and final approach, and there wouldn't be any obstructions in the aircraft's path, unless somebody decides to build a 1400-foot tower in Tempe along the final approach path to runways 26 and 25. They can also instruct pilots to continue west of downtown Phoenix, then turn north to approach Sky Harbor, or continue west to land at Goodyear or Luke AFB.
I think I'm defining downtown a little differently. I guess I'm talking more specifically about the Copper Square area, which is where I live, and where most of the taller buildings in Phoenix are located. Height restrictions in this area are a good idea, in my opinion. I realize downtown is bigger than just this area, and I agree with you, actually, about the areas farther to the north. There's no reason they shouldn't be able to build without height restrictions in those areas. Whether or not it would be wise to build super tall buildings outside of Copper Square at this time is another argument entirely.
Nice to see a resident of downtown here, where do you live in downtown if you don't mind? Orpheum Lofts?
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