Sheriff Joe (Phoenix, Scottsdale, Ajo: lawyer, relocating, military)

[aj661]

irwin, I am not a fan of Arpaio either, but how do you define "barbaric"? Is it the tents, pink underwear, restraint chairs, tasers, no cable, generic bologna? Amnesty International may be 'independent' but they certainly are not unbiased. For example, AI claims that Tasers are inhumane. I disagree. Have you ever been 'tased'? Well, I have. So have tens of thousands of police and correctional officers. Not one of them has died. If used properly (excessive, repeated application is not proper), they are safe. So the X26 model delivers 50,000 volts - at only 0.0021 amps! That's not deadly - ask an electrician. Yes it hurts, but it certainly wasn't the worst pain I've ever experienced. AI's clueless assertion that "they should only be used strictly as a substitute for lethal force" is ridiculous. The author of that comment is not in touch with reality. I wouldn't bring a knife to gun fight, and I damn sure wouldn't bring a taser.

The standard for arrest is PROBABLE CAUSE, not reasonable cause. Perhaps you're thinking of "reasonable suspicion", which is required to stop, detain, and question a person. I know a little about legal standards also. I was a police officer for 28 years, and every arrest I made was based on FACTS. I'm offended by your comment "And everyone knows that one law enforcement organization is not going to out another; they are not going to cross the blue line." A blanket condemnation of the integrity and honesty of entire organizations? You Sir are dead wrong on that point. Over the years, my department put a few of our own in prison for criminal activity. The FBI would have done the same. I've even seen officers terminated for lying to their supervisors. I don't know where you get your information, but I know that police officers are held to a higher standard. Could you get fired and banned from your chosen career field because you lied about backing a company car into a pole?

Arpaio may say and do some stupid things, but if the jails in Maricopa County are that horrendous, why are there so many repeat offenders? I'd think that if they somehow managed to survive their stay at this Devil's Island in the desert, that they would move on to a jurisdiction that has cable TV and better food in their jails.

You said that his barbaric treatment of prisoners clearly does not reduce the crime rate. You are absolutely, 100% correct, but do you believe that making the prisoners more comfortable will? It may be hard to accept, but based on my experience, there are some genuinely BAD PEOPLE in our society who are going to commit crimes regardless of the consequences.

[Robin Holland]

Originally Posted by aj661

Finally, the crime in Phoenix. Yes it's on the rise. So is the population. The bad guys are just as attracted to our great weather as everyone else.

I'm not going to get into the Sheriff there because I don't know much about him, but from what I have read, he seems corrupt and barbaric. I will say though that the rise in Phoenix crime is not due to a population increase because crime statistics are per 100,000 people, so population size or increase is irrelevant.

[aj661]

Originally Posted by Robin Holland

I'm not going to get into the Sheriff there because I don't know much about him, but from what I have read, he seems corrupt and barbaric. I will say though that the rise in Phoenix crime is not due to a population increase because crime statistics are per 100,000 people, so population size or increase is irrelevant.

Mr. Arpaio seems corrupt? How so? Do you have any factual information to support this assumption? I'll say it again, he and some of his detention personnel have been investigated by the FBI and the Department of Justice for alleged civil rights violations. They were exonerated. Depriving inmates of creature comforts is not barbaric. They are not denied basic human needs or rights.

As to the population vs. crime issue; it IS relevant. This isn't just my opinion, it comes from the FBI.
The following excerpt is from their article, Variables Affecting Crime:

"The data user is, ..., cautioned against comparing statistical data of individual reporting units from cities, counties, metropolitan areas, states, or colleges or universities solely on the basis on their population coverage or student enrollment. Until data users examine all the variables that affect crime in a town, city, county, state, region, or college or university, they can make no meaningful comparisons."

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/about/...ing_crime.html

Continually repeating the same virtually meaningless stats over and over as if they were gospel is unfair to people who come to this site looking for honest, useful information about our city and state.

[Robin Holland]

Originally Posted by aj661

I'll say it again, he and some of his detention personnel have been investigated by the FBI and the Department of Justice for alleged civil rights violations. They were exonerated. Depriving inmates of creature comforts is not barbaric. They are not denied basic human needs or rights.

Yes there is lots of information available on Arpaio, and it goes beyond his treatment of prisoners and into other areas. But on this topic, depriving inmates of 'creature comforts' is relative isn't it? To some people and in some states it would be considered barbaric. To other people in other states it is not.

My issue it that there are always innocent people in jail. Whether that be because they were unable to afford competant defence, or they were framed, or mistaken identity by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the fact remains it is true. Because of this flaw in the legal justice system, Arpaio seems to take matters too far.

Originally Posted by aj661

As to the population vs. crime issue; it IS relevant.

I fail to see how a population increase effects crime statistics if they're based on 100,000 people for each place. Currently the greater Phoenix population is about 3.9 million people, and in ten years it will be considerably more, but the crime stats will still be per 100,000 people as it is now, and a population increase does not effect that. I've only been sharing my views and information, and I'm sure that anybody considering moving to Phoenix is capable of finding the information that I have found themselves as well.

[teetle]

I'm definately late on this post but I am so for Sherrif Joe. After taking a tour of the prison and actually talking w/some of the inmates, they really don't have it bad. I was actually very shocked...the women were all getting along great and talking about the jobs they were doing and how it was helping them become better people. It seriously felt like walking into a summer camp setting, they were all in groups, laughing and having a great time.

A lot of people don't agree w/all of his practices, but these people are criminals. They don't just go in there for nothing. He has helped to lower the cost of feeding and housing inmates. W/the tents, it gives them that much more room to expand to have room for all the criminals on the street when they get caught as opposed to other cities that sometimes do bother w/some that aren't as "bad" due to lack of space. The pink underwear isn't to humilate the prisoners, it's to save money since the prisoners don't try to steal them when they leave.

The prisoners also have the choice to be in the tents and get to be outdoors and walk freely amonst each other (w/tv's, phones, etc) as opposed to being inside 23 hrs a day. They also get a choice to do the chain gangs. It's volutary.

[ibarrio]

Yeah. Great move to charge the illegals with a crime so you can keep them in your jail and get more money for yourself...Nice move because most people don't get it and will actually think you are saving them money by doing this.

[sindey]

Originally Posted by peaseblossom

Why is it that you are so concerned with how criminals are treated and less concerned with the effects of illegals coming into our country? Millions are lost due to illegal immigration! Sheriff Joes actions are not the reason there is crime in Arizona. I would say ppl coming over hiding in the cracks of the city, taking advantage of hard working Arizona citizens is the MAJOR cause!

Who cares if "international human rights groups" condemn your actions?! He is doing is job! It is really easy to "condemn" someones actions, when your not having to deal with the problem in your backyard! Maybe some of those international human rights groups should come over and help "babysit" the criminals back to there country!!!

These ppl coming across the border illegally are committing a crime. Our troops have willing chose to go to Iraq and live in worse conditions, for our country. I think if they are treated like "guests" at a hotel, they will keep coming back. Punishment sucks, but, that is why it is called punishment. And if he was so bad, the government would have his badge removed

When we stop caring about people we are really in trouble. Did you know most of the people in sheriff Joe's jails are UNsentenced. That means ,they are innocent until PROVEN quilty. If we start to treat people like they are automatically quilty, why even have trials? We could just lock everyone up when sheriff Joe or his henchmen say so. That is what he would like. I do agree on one thing you said "punishment sucks" but how about if we just punish the proven quilty beyond a resonable doubt, the way is was intended to be. The man is crazy.
Also, statistics show the criminals who return to jail in Phoenix is about the same rate of the rest of the country. His tactics do nothing to prevent return offenders.
The goverment would have his badge you say? That statement made my night. your funny

[DaveV]

Umm.. when people 3000 miles away know of a particular "Sheriff" (and I use the term loosely), you have a problem. He is an embarrassment to your community

[hikenbiker]

I had to deal with Joe and his x-high school football - but-didn't go anywhere-in life-living in the past-x bully without the "x"-detention officers (or better known as D.O.'s) i affectionately call them "door openers"...but now i don't break the law and never have to deal with him or his ill-trained staff again. the ball was placed in my court...and "the joe" doesn't rent space in my head any longer...

[diggitydot]

I have various family members and friends in different law enforcement positions and have great respect for officers and their families. Some of those officers are with the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office so I've heard some of these issues from "inside", if you will.

However, there are several things that scare me about Arpaio and point to larger issues. From needless inmate deaths to questionable "investigations" of his political rivals for crimes alleged from over 20 years ago that had long since passed the statute of limitations. Something definitely stinks in Maricopa County.