Move from NYC to Phoenix? (Glendale, Scottsdale: rv park, real estate, hoa)

[gritsnyc]

Hi all --

My husband and I are considering a massive life change by moving out of Brooklyn and Phoenix is on our list of possible homes.

A bit about us, as I believe our situation is somewhat unique:

* We're in our mid-30s, no kids (so schools are not an issue).

* I've been in NYC for 12+ years, but originally from the Midwest. Husband is British and has been here for 2+ years.

* Phoenix isn't a grab-bag thought...I have a good chunk of family in the area who have been there since the late 1970s. This is an obvious plus; the con is that they are mostly centered around North Scottsdale (think Kierland, Cave Creek, Tatum and Shea), so my experience in town is fairly limited to where they live and surrounding tourist attractions. They LOVE where they live; adore being near the malls and shopping and golf and such; can't see why this isn't exactly what everyone else wants, etc.

And so, here is our question: Is there a neighborhood or town/village in the metro area where we can have all the joys of the desert (climate, beauty, nice friendly people, my wonderful family), but also be within a no-more-than-two-mile radius of (mostly) independent shops, restaurants, bars, cafes, etc.? This is the part of Brooklyn that we love -- that we can walk to what we want/need on a daily basis, and that chains are far and few between. We're also not big fans of the gated and/or planned/pre-fab community.

We truly love the desert (just got back a couple of days ago...even the wilting Brit could handle the heat!), but would love to hear that there is some magical neighborhood that isn't all strip malls or national chains. For example, we love Cave Creek, but doubt we could afford to live there immediately since there are other big-ticket purchases (i.e., cars!) that we would need to take care of first.

Job-wise, we're pretty secure and are used to paying upwards of $1200/month for rent and you-don't-even-want-to-know-how-much for utilities, if that helps.

I know this is asking for a lot, but thanks for any ideas/advice.

[ivanabacowboy]

I live generally in the part of town as your family (right down the street from Kierland). This is a great part of town-I am with your family and love it.

Phoenix area is a lot different than an east coast city like Brooklyn. It's a lot different even than where I came from (also Midwest: Cleveland). The name of the game here is suburban sprawl for miles and miles and miles. Kierland is about close to as "urban" as this part of town gets. A similar option that I think has a little bit younger demographic than Kierland would be Desert Ridge (Tatum & the 101).

Or perhaps down by Scottsdale & Camelback on the waterfront area at the canal. It has a lot of independent (spell $$$$) shops and restaurants and such, right adjacent to Fashion Square. I like it down there. But living in the waterfront condos will set you back an arm & a leg. Another condo option near the waterfront is Optima Camelview I think it is called-right at Goldwater and Scottsdale within walking distance to Fashion Square and the waterfront, condos brand new to still under construction and absolutely gorgeous with glass walls and such in my opinion.

There is always Old Town or South Scottsdale. But from what I have seen and heard other than the waterfront area, I definitely prefer the northern end of town. Recognizing Scottsdale is a very long (like 30 miles) city.

There also is a huge development in the works near Desert Ridge-City North. I believe there are like a trillion planned housing/apartment/condo units. It appears to me to be a larger scale type of Kierland neighborhood the whole live/work/shop/play/eat/golf/spa thing. But it will have Bloomingdale's and Nordstrom and Macy's which Kierland doesnt. ;-)

Another pretty nice area is around Troon (just about 4 miles east and 4 miles north of where I am). But this is even further than Kierland/Desert Ridge from the "urban" thing you are looking for. It's more the "suburban desert thing".

If you do not have a car judging by your comment that you need to purchase vehicles, you definitely do not want to get too far out until you have vehicles. Bus and public transit out here well..is very limited to nonexistent.

Tempe I suspect would have more of the "eclectic" type of stuff. But that would put you among a lot of college-age folks with ASU, and I suspect that isn't exactly what you are looking for.

Biltmore or Arcadia may be other options. I am not exceptionally familiar with those areas as I am these parts a tad further north. I believe generally 24th & Camelback area or thereabouts. Which would be about 8 miles or so south of the folks you know at Tatum & Shea. From what I gather this is the "old money" area of town. But also quite pricey.

I have read here on the boards that they are attempting to do a more urban thing in downtown Phoenix, but I have not been there and would have no idea. And I personally wouldnt want to live in downtown anywhere-that's just me. But I wouldnt hold up hopes that it would be anything even remotely similar to where you are coming from.

You should be able to find a nice place for $1200, especially with incentives places typically offer. Ie "Rent is $1500 but we give you 1 or 2 months free and prorate it over the 12 month lease" which gets you down quite a bit.

Bottom line: the entire Phoenix area I have witnessed is suburb after suburb after suburb, even WITHIN the city of Phoenix itself. From the pictures I have seen, even downtown Phoenix more resembles a suburb (albeit with a couple tall buildings) than an east coast city.

Perhaps others will be along with more ideas for you.

[Phoenix lady]

Originally Posted by gritsnyc

And so, here is our question: Is there a neighborhood or town/village in the metro area where we can have all the joys of the desert (climate, beauty, nice friendly people, my wonderful family), but also be within a no-more-than-two-mile radius of (mostly) independent shops, restaurants, bars, cafes, etc.? This is the part of Brooklyn that we love -- that we can walk to what we want/need on a daily basis, and that chains are far and few between. We're also not big fans of the gated and/or planned/pre-fab community.

We truly love the desert (just got back a couple of days ago...even the wilting Brit could handle the heat!), but would love to hear that there is some magical neighborhood that isn't all strip malls or national chains.

Maybe Tempe or Glendale? If you check the Phoenix threads, you will see many complaints about the "cooky cutter" houses out here.

[sablebaby]

Just like most large metro areas we are mostly big chains among big chains. The real estate for commercial is just so high that a ma and pop store or restaurant can't afford rent.

[Kentstate57]

"We're also not big fans of the gated and/or planned/pre-fab community." Very wise. If you don't like nosey neighbors spying on you and micromanaging your life and property, avoid HOAs completely. Unfortunately all new subdivisions being approved by cities are requiring them in order to shift normal city responsibilities to the HOAs, so that you are paying twice for what the city should be providing. Condo living of course requires these extra costs. I'm referring to free standing homes in new subdivisions. However, if you expect all sorts of amenities from your subdivision, such as pools, tennis, clubhouses, then of course you will have to pay for it and put up with the other nonsense.
Anyhow. Phoenix is so spread out, and if you have to work, it seems to me more logical to look in areas that are relatively convenient to get to work. Older areas of central Phoenix are HOA free, and have some neighborhood amenities, in addition to the much ballyhooed light rail.
Good luck!

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by sablebaby

Just like most large metro areas we are mostly big chains among big chains. The real estate for commercial is just so high that a ma and pop store or restaurant can't afford rent.

For all the whining about chains, chains are what people really, really want. I have witnessed the almost total disappearance of family-owned restaurants, businesses and local flavor not only here but across the US. Look at the airports, the freeways, the downtowns. All the little places have been replaced by Subways and McDonalds. When people travel, do they stop at the mom-pop place or pull into the nearest drive through? There's boarded-up "supper clubs" in Wisconsin, closed down as their customers flocked to Chilis and Applebee's. Pizza Hut has driven out as many mom and pops from small town America as has WalMart. We have exactly what we want and it's chains. So people should quit whining about it. Lunch at Sweet Tomatoes, anyone?

[gritsnyc]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

For all the whining about chains, chains are what people really, really want. I have witnessed the almost total disappearance of family-owned restaurants, businesses and local flavor not only here but across the US. Look at the airports, the freeways, the downtowns. All the little places have been replaced by Subways and McDonalds. When people travel, do they stop at the mom-pop place or pull into the nearest drive through? There's boarded-up "supper clubs" in Wisconsin, closed down as their customers flocked to Chilis and Applebee's. Pizza Hut has driven out as many mom and pops from small town America as has WalMart. We have exactly what we want and it's chains. So people should quit whining about it. Lunch at Sweet Tomatoes, anyone?

Though I agree with you on a widespread, "majority rules" scale, this is precisely what my husband and I try to avoid as much as possible, if only because chains tend to be so blah and predictable. We're lucky in NYC that there are still many local businesses and a big movement to support them, particularly as city rents continue to rise and often price start-ups out of the neighborhoods. Being realistic about the way America is going (for better or worse), we're also doing our best to find someplace where we won't have to "compromise" too much.

Oh, and we do our best to eat and stay local when we travel. It's so much more fun and interesting.

[gritsnyc]

Originally Posted by Kentstate57

"We're also not big fans of the gated and/or planned/pre-fab community." Very wise. If you don't like nosey neighbors spying on you and micromanaging your life and property, avoid HOAs completely...Phoenix is so spread out, and if you have to work, it seems to me more logical to look in areas that are relatively convenient to get to work...Older areas of central Phoenix are HOA free, and have some neighborhood amenities, in addition to the much ballyhooed light rail.
Good luck!

Thanks for the tips on HOAs. Having lived in Chicago and NYC for all of my adult life, I'm not terribly familiar with the ins-and-outs of how HOAs work, aside from snippets that I get from my subdivision-dwelling family. It just seems silly to me to have a gated community in quiet, suburban-esque areas, but I also understand that my views are completely skewed being a city dweller.

Phoenix's sprawl is one of the things that concerns me about moving there; that said, I'm used to very long commutes, time-wise (over an hour to go 10 miles, anyone?). As of now, my husband and I both mostly work from home, so I'm not sure that rush hour will apply too much to either of us in the near future.

Re: Central Phoenix: Could you give me some general ideas about areas? Even cross-streets would do as I often get Central Phoenix and South Scottsdale mixed up in my head.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by gritsnyc

Though I agree with you on a widespread, "majority rules" scale, this is precisely what my husband and I try to avoid as much as possible, if only because chains tend to be so blah and predictable. We're lucky in NYC that there are still many local businesses and a big movement to support them, particularly as city rents continue to rise and often price start-ups out of the neighborhoods. Being realistic about the way America is going (for better or worse), we're also doing our best to find someplace where we won't have to "compromise" too much.

Oh, and we do our best to eat and stay local when we travel. It's so much more fun and interesting.

Eating local doesn't necessarily mean you avoid chains. Many chain outlets are owned by your neighbors who live and contribute to the community where their restaurant is located. One that comes to mind is an owner/franchisee of a chain restaurant near where I live. He lives in my development and every year puts on a fund raising dinner for the school at considerable expense, I think. One could cynically say that he does it for the advertising, but the school community doesn't reach all that many people and I don't believe that. We give him our business, because his place is nice and the food is good, chain or otherwise, and because we know he is giving back to all of us.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Kentstate57

"We're also not big fans of the gated and/or planned/pre-fab community." Very wise. If you don't like nosey neighbors spying on you and micromanaging your life and property, avoid HOAs completely. Unfortunately all new subdivisions being approved by cities are requiring them in order to shift normal city responsibilities to the HOAs, so that you are paying twice for what the city should be providing. Condo living of course requires these extra costs. I'm referring to free standing homes in new subdivisions. However, if you expect all sorts of amenities from your subdivision, such as pools, tennis, clubhouses, then of course you will have to pay for it and put up with the other nonsense.
Anyhow. Phoenix is so spread out, and if you have to work, it seems to me more logical to look in areas that are relatively convenient to get to work. Older areas of central Phoenix are HOA free, and have some neighborhood amenities, in addition to the much ballyhooed light rail.
Good luck!

HOA rules generally go far beyond what government requires. I think just about every city in PHX area has restrictions on property uses like cars on the lawn, RV parking, etc, trash etc. But HOAs can and do tell you what kind of plants you can have, the color of your house, outdoor lights and on and on. A lot of folks don't care, because they live "nice" and are low impact neighbors anyway. But when you get a "weed letter" you get mad no matter what. All in all, HOAs are not going to have a big impact in your life, particularly as a renter.

Gated communities are something that became more popular in the housing boom. They have little impact on crime as the areas where they exist are hardly high-crime to begin with. It's more about the personal sense of "exclusivity" - the ego of the owners. You pay for the feeling too, as the fees to maintain the streets are paid by the residents when you are inside of gates.