Arizona/Phoenix Area feels a lot like the Republican national Convention

[reckoner]

and thanks for the token - and highly original - "if you don't like it here, leave" post. way to bring the discussion to higher level.

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

For everybody who thinks Conservative Arizona is boring, then get out of here and go live in very liberal San Francisco, you don't have to stay here.

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by reckoner

and thanks for the token - and highly original - "if you don't like it here, leave" post. way to bring the discussion to higher level.

What's really funny is you can't leave here, not in this economy, unless your hitch hiking with a can of beans. lol

[Tailofdogma]

Originally Posted by borborygmi

Issue number one: carbon-based gases produced as byproducts of copmbustion have never been proven to cause or to contribute to global warming, assuming such a thing does exist. Carbon emissions as the theoretical cause of g.w. is a myth propagated by proponents of the g.w. theory which has no substantial proven basis. But that's neither here nor there and it's a discussion for another time.

My second point cuts to the real gist of your argument, which is this: in my lifetime (I'm only in my early thirties), the population of the planet has doubled. It will double again by the time I'm in my forties. And, assuming there isn't a cataclysmic event that puts a stop to that population growth, it's fair to assume that the population will double again and again before my death. The bulk of this population growth is happening in developing countries, rising economies and third-world countries, the governments and leaders of which couldn't care less about our environmental concerns or our efforts to cut pollution. They're certainly not going to curb their economic growth or prosperity to contribute to the "greater good" of helping the environment. Some estimates I've read have the total carbon emissions produced in China and India surpassing the levels produced by the U.S., skyrocketing past it and doubling it as soon as early next decade. So, even if you could theoretically get every single person in this country and in all other first-world Western countries, even mandated it by law, to cut down on our carbon emissions to the point of zero, what would you solve? Answer: nothing. To rebuke your point above, it's actually not a step toward anything if millions of people in western countries are the only ones doing it in a world populated by billions who aren't interested in participating in said environmental causes and aren't ever going to be, if it impacts their economies negatively. Which it would.

China, India and other developing economies in South America and elsewhere will continue to create more pollution and do more environmental harm than we can ever repair or reverse despite every effort on our behalf to the contrary, even if every single one of us in this country got on board with aggressive pro-environmental lifestyle changes. You can shout about environmental conservation all day, but the truth is that you're wasting your breath and your time. And I'm wasting mine writing this.

I had this really big, well reasoned, stats heavy response all planned out. Then I re-read both of your posts and I decided something I occasionally heard as a child growing up might be the best thing to say.

If China, India, and South America jumped off the Brooklyn bridge, would you?

[Upstate Nancy]

Arizona never really felt red to me ever. I thought it very odd that it was/is. Maybe it'll turn like Virginia and possibly NC is. Lol.

[Howard Roark]

Although I tend to date women outside my race, I think this "diversity" stuff is b.s. My lady friends don't dwell on "diversity" at all. I would not associate with them if they were so obsessed by that b.s. In addition, I'm by no means a multiculturalist, although I am an extreme social liberal. My culture is that of a professional who is trying to build a better mousetrap and profit from it, if you know what I mean, and have fun along the way by my single life and by working out and watching great football games. Big government Democrats are tired, stodgy, and old, just like fundamentalist Republicans. They are boring.

There are plenty of interesting people in Phoenix. None of them ever attended a Democrat or Republican convention.

[Howard Roark]

I'm a liberal. I'm about the future. So when I turn 70 I won't be a fogie?

What new discoveries do we liberals make? If you mean us real liberals, in the Frederic Bastiat sense, then yes, you are including free enterprise, profit motive. If you mean the group which the mainstream considers liberals, that group only lives off the discoveries and wealth produced by others outside that group.

The real conservatives are not just the mainstream Republican Party.

I wish you will continue the thought process on what conservatives are trying to conserve. If you consider that politicians are trying to conserve big government and security over freedom, you have to admit you are including Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Christopher Dodd, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, Barack Obama, Charles Shumer and my congressman Harry Mitchell along with John McCain, Hank Paulson, Ben Bernanke, and George W. Bush.

After that, then you have to ask what a liberal really means. Again I refer you to, Frederic Bastiat - he coined the term "liberal."

In reality, there are very few liberals in Congress and the oval office. Hasn't been a liberal there since Thomas Jefferson. Most liberals I know are busy producing, and avoiding taxes, as well as holding their life as their standard of value.

Originally Posted by Century25

Phoenix is a repub' town. Look up 'conservative' then look up liberal. The fogies rules here.. liberals have always been about the future & Modern/Modernist.. and new discoveries, not backward looking. The so-called 'conservatives' (wtf do/did they ever conserve??) like old fashioned.. everything. It is sad.. no, sick. Too bad we can't go back to the future..

Remember.. you can't reach for the stars standing on your wallet, no matter how thick it gets.

[azkylady2]

[quote=MotleyCrew;5164972]Why don't you guys move this to the political forum. Fair warning, wear a flame retardant suit of some kind. [/quote


This is why I keep my political views to myself. I think the VOTE is personal and should be something you don't run around telling people about. If everyone quietly went and voted we would have no fighting at all, but no, theres always THE ONEs that have to try and push they beliefs on to you.