Drophouses in phx (Phoenix, Chandler, Tempe: environment, foreclosures, rental)

[dc1225]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

I've never stated where I was born. I was born in Phoenix in 1980, and have moved every one to two years since then because my father was in the Army. I "left" Arizona and Phoenix when I was 6 months old. I've spent most of my life "stationed" in the Seattle area (about 6 years or more) and therefore identify with that area. I've always stated I was an Army brat and served myself; but even Army/military brats are born somewhere and most not on the road. Graduated from high school there, etc.

As for everyone else, like ponderosa has stated as well, when someone attacks where a person lives and calls home then that shouldn't be allowed. The person I addressed did this, there is no doubt in his wording. So, all of you, like twiggy, will "stand" for this, but when someone else questions motives and exaggerations, then OH MY GOD, someone must be getting too "pitbullish" for someone's fragile sensibilities.

No one hid the fact that drophouses exist, but when someone becomes a zealot, then it needs to be addressed. There is nothing weird or strange about someone "being protective" of the place they call home. Go into Boston's, NYC, or Chicago's forum and start talking badly about their cities; if you think we/I are/am bad then you are in for a big surprise. Better yet, go heckle some Philadelphians...good luck!

I think part of the problem is that some here are casual residents and do not take living here seriously, even if they are "natives" or have lived here for a decade or two. But really, they have no sense of home here, no deep roots that go back generations, and no real connection to what Phoenix is or has the ability to be. I know this is a drophouse thread, but there is a real issue that could be discussed here but often instead of constructive discussions someone has to take that step-up to berating and name calling. What I think many are encountering in Phoenix is a renewal and rebirth of a Phoenician and Valley wide sense of self and culture that was very strong here before the mega booms of population. My grandmother is a proud Phoenician and Arizonan and has seen so many evolutions and watering down of what Arizona and Phoenix were.

What we have now, is a base of population that will have raised a generation or two in Phoenix and that will have a sense of community and roots that spawn a strong sense of pride in where one is from. That pride you encounter in "older" cities is finding a place here as well. Unlike what some have tried to claim, I do not "sugar coat" problems in Phoenix, I will be the first to talk about them and acknowledge the short falls. However, the problem is when these problems are taken out of context and truths are stretched into misinformation and sometimes deliberate lies.

An example, auto-theft, larceny, and burglary are the most common infraction in all of Arizona. Arizona was at one time the worst state for auto-theft, then it fell to two, then four, in 2007 to 8, and (according to a report from USAA that I received this month that accompanied my new lower auto insurance rate) will fall again because of fewer auto thefts. However, it is still a serious problem. Even if it fell to number 10, it will be a serious issue. However, Phoenix is not a dirty nor dangerous city. New York, LA, Chicago, Houston and so many more have many more occurrences of assault, rape, robbery, car-jackings, gang-violence, etc. New York has a lower murder rate than Phoenix, but the other cities do not. So when someone claims that Phoenix is a VERY dangerous city, then the truth should be explained...bottom-line. That isn't "strange" behavior. So as for the topic, yes Phoenix has a drophouse problem, what major city, especially near a border doesn't? Even safe San Diego has an immense problem with this criminal activity.

Holy thesis!

[dc1225]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

How can someone think a place with so many drop-houses, kidnappings, meth-heads, and car chases is boring? These are things people pay money to see on the big screen. It's very exciting to witness a helicopter-pursuit every few days.

Loooove me some A&E! Looove watching intervention, which is what I am doing now!

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

LOL! Speaking of such...when was the last helicopter-pursuit? Having lived in LA, I don't really get why they do it...this happened literally EVERYDAY in LA.

Today, oh, do you mean televised? I think the last one I saw on t.v. was the one where the copter piliots died when they crashed into one another. I believe thats why they aren't on t.v. anymore.: That was a sad day!


I agree, circles. And hype, but the sheriffs commercial is why people get so afraid for no reason. You don't have to yell "stupid" at them. And he was in law here so, who would know better?

Ponderosa, man, you are pissed huh! Listen, you either make more money than me or you live further out than me. I'm glad you are so lucky, your life sounds wonderful, I don't know why you wouldn't love it here but do you really think your in the majority of people in Phoenix? I know you made your money and all that but that doesn't mean poorer people don't want to make a good life for their families somewhere. It's just for different reasons than you. A poster once said we are divided here by money not race. This is really true. Life is so different from one area to the next.
I would probably have a different opinion if I had all of those wonderful things you have. You deserve it, must have made some good choices.
If you aren't as fortunate then of course Dakota would be more appealing. A big city is not as wonderful for someone without a chunk of change. A regular family would have all of what you mention natually in other parts of the country to enjoy. Smaller schools too. They wouldn't have to pay for a man made owasis like they do here. Nor would they have to deal with crowded broken down city schools. Being in law enforcement here doesn't pay as much as some jobs, I believe they do it because they want to help people out.

Insulting Phoenix is a lot different than insulting a person directly fcor. I know your smarter than that.

You guys can go ahead and bash away but I still don't understand why this is such a sensitive subject for you guys. I haven't seen a post so long from Ponderosa in ages. This must mean a lot to you. I'll be respectful and leave it alone. Later gents!

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by twiggy

Today, oh, do you mean televised? I think the last one I saw on t.v. was the one where the copter piliots died when they crashed into one another. I believe thats why they aren't on t.v. anymore.: That was a sad day!


I agree, circles. And hype, but the sheriffs commercial is why people get so afraid for no reason. You don't have to yell "stupid" at them. And he was in law here so, who would know better?

Ponderosa, man, you are pissed huh! Listen, you either make more money than me or you live further out than me. I'm glad you are so lucky, your life sounds wonderful, I don't know why you wouldn't love it here but do you really think your in the majority of people in Phoenix? I know you made your money and all that but that doesn't mean poorer people don't want to make a good life for their families somewhere. It's just for different reasons than you. A poster once said we are divided here by money not race. This is really true. Life is so different from one area to the next.

I would probably have a different opinion if I had all of those wonderful things you have. You deserve it, must have made some good choices.
If you aren't as fortunate then of course Dakota would be more appealing. A big city is not as wonderful for someone without a chunk of change. A regular family would have all of what you mention natually in other parts of the country to enjoy. Smaller schools too. They wouldn't have to pay for a man made owasis like they do here. Nor would they have to deal with crowded broken down city schools. Being in law enforcement here doesn't pay as much as some jobs, I believe they do it because they want to help people out.

Insulting Phoenix is a lot different than insulting a person directly fcor. I know your smarter than that.

You guys can go ahead and bash away but I still don't understand why this is such a sensitive subject for you guys. I haven't seen a post so long from Ponderosa in ages. This must mean a lot to you. I'll be respectful and leave it alone. Later gents!

Who was insulting a person? Show me where that happened? And for all you talked about including having to live far outside the city to live in a nice area, I live right downtown in a mix of incomes and some of the best schools in the Valley; like Kenilworth which is on 5th Ave. and i-10. Also, the Phoenix BioScience High School which has just been nationally recognized. Brophy is down the road and if you go to their website and community outreach, you will find out that they give out scholarships, same with Saint Mary's which is a great school. North High School, Alhambra are among the list of high schools in Phoenix experiencing some great changes in academic achievement. While many have pointed out the horrible schools in Phoenix, Ponderosa was quick to correct that. Phoenix is actually leading the way in the nation in gains in Hispanic and minority education. For instance, Central High School, a school where 65.1% of the student body is Hispanic, 12.7% white, 12.1% black, 7.5% native American, and 2.5% Asian, has a drop out rate of 4.8%...

4.8%. Find a high school in another big city that is mostly of minority make-up like that with a 4.8% dropout rate. Central has a 97.3% attendance rating (among the highest in the nation), and above national average SAT and ACT scores. This isn't the only mostly minority high school in Phoenix that is experience such a turnaround. Alhambra, North, Sunnyside are leading the way for PUHSD. Other schools like Carl Hayden and Trevor Brown have some catching up to do but they are seeing a change that took place at schools like Central. It has to do with the aggressive recruiting of the schools districts. 74% of the teachers have a Master's or higher, 72% have 10 years of more with experience as educators.

What does this have to do with drophouses? Everything. The more educated a population, the less willing they are to allow illegal activity to occur in their neighborhood (even if it is a lower income area).

[NytoPhx]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Yeah, that is what they are. They are usually normal looking houses but they hide, more recently, illegals smuggled into the U.S. waiting for their families to pay for them to be "released." Many of these homes are actually not abandoned, but are purchased in cash by cartels that are involved with human smuggling rings, among other activities.

They are a problem here in Phoenix, but really, they are everywhere in the U.S. and especially in the border states. Even the Canadian border. This is not new. I remember stories in Seattle about Canadian and American drophouses that stored the largest supplies of Ecstasy, Canadian/Alaskan Pot, and weapons. In Arizona, like most issues, alarmists tend to hype up the effect in Arizona. San Diego has many more drophouses and tunnels underneath the border between the U.S. and Mexico.

One reason they are a big issue here, is that what I have noticed from most Arizonans and Phoenicians, is OUR unwillingness to allow illegal immigration and its activities to flourish here. In so many cities, like LA, Houston, NYC, San Diego, and even Seattle, people are willing to allow illegal immigration activity because they believe it is the "liberal" and socially "sympathetic" thing to do.

Good description of what a drop house but I disagree with your last sentence. I don't feel other cities such as Houston or LA feel "sympathetic" toward illegals. Houston is certainly no more liberal than Phoenix is. Other cities such as Seattle or New York, might only "allow" it more because they are not in border states, and thus can do nothing to secure the boarder, but their stances toward illegals are equally as unwilling and hostile.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by NytoPhx

Good description of what a drop house but I disagree with your last sentence. I don't feel other cities such as Houston or LA feel "sympathetic" toward illegals. Houston is certainly no more liberal than Phoenix is. Other cities such as Seattle or New York, might only "allow" it more because they are not in border states, and thus can do nothing to secure the boarder, but their stances toward illegals are equally as unwilling and hostile.

Seattle and NYC are not in border states? Well, last time I checked Canada was a different country and a port of entry for terrorist rings, the largest ecstacy, pot, cocaine, and weapons busts and smuggling. Since that border isn't a focus like the Mexican border, those wishing to find easier access are now using Canada. The government is now finding Canada a growing concern and much more dangerous to national security.

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Who was insulting a person? Show me where that happened? And for all you talked about including having to live far outside the city to live in a nice area, I live right downtown in a mix of incomes and some of the best schools in the Valley; like Kenilworth which is on 5th Ave. and i-10. Also, the Phoenix BioScience High School which has just been nationally recognized. Brophy is down the road and if you go to their website and community outreach, you will find out that they give out scholarships, same with Saint Mary's which is a great school. North High School, Alhambra are among the list of high schools in Phoenix experiencing some great changes in academic achievement. While many have pointed out the horrible schools in Phoenix, Ponderosa was quick to correct that. Phoenix is actually leading the way in the nation in gains in Hispanic and minority education. For instance, Central High School, a school where 65.1% of the student body is Hispanic, 12.7% white, 12.1% black, 7.5% native American, and 2.5% Asian, has a drop out rate of 4.8%...

4.8%. Find a high school in another big city that is mostly of minority make-up like that with a 4.8% dropout rate. Central has a 97.3% attendance rating (among the highest in the nation), and above national average SAT and ACT scores. This isn't the only mostly minority high school in Phoenix that is experience such a turnaround. Alhambra, North, Sunnyside are leading the way for PUHSD. Other schools like Carl Hayden and Trevor Brown have some catching up to do but they are seeing a change that took place at schools like Central. It has to do with the aggressive recruiting of the schools districts. 74% of the teachers have a Master's or higher, 72% have 10 years of more with experience as educators.

What does this have to do with drophouses? Everything. The more educated a population, the less willing they are to allow illegal activity to occur in their neighborhood (even if it is a lower income area).

Um, I was talking about class sizes and the landscape amenities of Ponderosas community. To have that spread in Phoenix would cost you. Sounds like you live in an average area like me. I'm glad to see things turning around in Phoenix. Alhambra wasn't always doing so well.
I agree educating people will help just about everything.

It's nice to hear some good news about downtown. Every city has its good and not so good (or older) areas. If you want what Ponderosa has though, from where I am, you need to pay more or move further out. They have built some fantastic schools out there and I am not talking about the education quality. I'm talking about full size pools, mini restaurants and fast food places right in the schools, huge gym facilities, state of the art and beautiful. Plus, lower classroom sizes, more one on one attention.

Here is what I was talking about.
Quote from Ponderosa:The students score significantly above the national averages on standardized tests and the school has the top rating of the state education system. Parents are involved in the school personally and financially. When my kid goes to high school in a couple years it will be at a facility that has state of the art everything including a to-die-for performing arts center and a competitive aquatic facility. My home is surrounded by safe parks, acres upon acres of grassy areas, lakes, and miles of hiking and biking trails and a private pool/waterpark. We have very little crime and a polluted sky is a rarity. Crime, while not unheard of, is rare enough that it is a heated topic on our residents web site when it does occur. And we know and we socialize with our neighbors. In short, we have a lifestyle that would be the envy of most of the nation. Sure, it is an affluent area but not outrageously so, and millions of people here live in other areas that offer similar or better lifestyles.

I doubt you have this scenario in downtown. And as much as they're doing to turn those schools around they are not doing this. A lot of schools can't even get the funding to fix existing problems. I'm glad for him, like I said, but this just doesn't represent most of the people living in Phoenix.
No one I know would try and leave Phoenix if they had his scenario. People leave big cities to go to smaller ones to get this for free is what I said. Here it is man made and cost a lot of money. I wasn't trying to be mean or anything. It's just that I can see why he wouldn't understand.
I believe people who can afford the 400 to 500,000 dollar range or up for housing and have families like it here. I think people who are in the 250,000 and down like me dream of getting out of here more. To a smaller place with free things in nature to enjoy, free clean air,smaller schools, free acres of land, things like that. Its like this everywhere I think. Big cities are just different from smaller cities. Phoenix isn't the exception by any means but it's not exempt from the problems of a big city either.

If you have money, you can afford to treat your kids to the culture of the city in a safe way. If you don't, and work all day, your kids get exposed to a different kind of culture in the city. Not the favorable kind.
I'm really not looking for an argument here, just some understanding. I'm glad you get a lot out of Phoenix, but some don't. You seem to only understand the ones that do. So that tells me you've had good experiences here. Thats great for both of you. But not everyone has or does and that is understandable to me. Thats all. I can see why they left and agree it was probably a good idea. I can also see why they would be jealous and say some of those things about people who can afford to have a great life here. And don't acknowledge there are people who find it hard here and easier somewhere else. Plus, he was responding to a cut down to be fair. He didn't start this thing.
I just hope they have found a better place where they too can feel they are doing the best for their children and themselves. I'm in no way saying you and Ponderosa don't deserve what you have or don't have it. Sorry for the misunderstanding. This is just my opinion as well, from my experiences here. It might not be the same for the poster. It's obviously not the same for you. I do have plenty I enjoy about Phoenix, it's just not the acres of land, state of the art school, or the hiking trails surrounding my abode.

[TurcoLoco]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Seattle and NYC are not in border states? Well, last time I checked Canada was a different country and a port of entry for terrorist rings, the largest ecstacy, pot, cocaine, and weapons busts and smuggling. Since that border isn't a focus like the Mexican border, those wishing to find easier access are now using Canada. The government is now finding Canada a growing concern and much more dangerous to national security.

Couldn't help thinking about late John Candy's old movie called 'Canadian Bacon'!

But on a more serious note, often the biggest threat is the most underestimated and overlooked, in this case that cold*ss country up North.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by twiggy

Um, I was talking about class sizes and the landscape amenities of Ponderosas community. To have that spread in Phoenix would cost you. Sounds like you live in an average area like me. I'm glad to see things turning around in Phoenix. Alhambra wasn't always doing so well.
I agree educating people will help just about everything.

It's nice to hear some good news about downtown. Every city has its good and not so good (or older) areas. If you want what Ponderosa has though, from where I am, you need to pay more or move further out. They have built some fantastic schools out there and I am not talking about the education quality. I'm talking about full size pools, mini restaurants and fast food places right in the schools, huge gym facilities, state of the art and beautiful. Plus, lower classroom sizes, more one on one attention.

Here is what I was talking about.
Quote from Ponderosa:The students score significantly above the national averages on standardized tests and the school has the top rating of the state education system. Parents are involved in the school personally and financially. When my kid goes to high school in a couple years it will be at a facility that has state of the art everything including a to-die-for performing arts center and a competitive aquatic facility. My home is surrounded by safe parks, acres upon acres of grassy areas, lakes, and miles of hiking and biking trails and a private pool/waterpark. We have very little crime and a polluted sky is a rarity. Crime, while not unheard of, is rare enough that it is a heated topic on our residents web site when it does occur. And we know and we socialize with our neighbors. In short, we have a lifestyle that would be the envy of most of the nation. Sure, it is an affluent area but not outrageously so, and millions of people here live in other areas that offer similar or better lifestyles.

I doubt you have this scenario in downtown. And as much as they're doing to turn those schools around they are not doing this. A lot of schools can't even get the funding to fix existing problems. I'm glad for him, like I said, but this just doesn't represent most of the people living in Phoenix.
No one I know would try and leave Phoenix if they had his scenario. People leave big cities to go to smaller ones to get this for free is what I said. Here it is man made and cost a lot of money. I wasn't trying to be mean or anything. It's just that I can see why he wouldn't understand.
I believe people who can afford the 400 to 500,000 dollar range or up for housing and have families like it here. I think people who are in the 250,000 and down like me dream of getting out of here more. To a smaller place with free things in nature to enjoy, free clean air,smaller schools, free acres of land, things like that. Its like this everywhere I think. Big cities are just different from smaller cities. Phoenix isn't the exception by any means but it's not exempt from the problems of a big city either.

If you have money, you can afford to treat your kids to the culture of the city in a safe way. If you don't, and work all day, your kids get exposed to a different kind of culture in the city. Not the favorable kind.
I'm really not looking for an argument here, just some understanding. I'm glad you get a lot out of Phoenix, but some don't. You seem to only understand the ones that do. So that tells me you've had good experiences here. Thats great for both of you. But not everyone has or does and that is understandable to me. Thats all. I can see why they left and agree it was probably a good idea. I can also see why they would be jealous and say some of those things about people who can afford to have a great life here. And don't acknowledge there are people who find it hard here and easier somewhere else. Plus, he was responding to a cut down to be fair. He didn't start this thing.
I just hope they have found a better place where they too can feel they are doing the best for their children and themselves. I'm in no way saying you and Ponderosa don't deserve what you have or don't have it. Sorry for the misunderstanding. This is just my opinion as well, from my experiences here. It might not be the same for the poster. It's obviously not the same for you. I do have plenty I enjoy about Phoenix, it's just not the acres of land, state of the art school, or the hiking trails surrounding my abode.

What you are saying would make sense if it were true. But, from how you write, I would assume you haven't been to downtown lately? Or seen Central, Alhambra, Sunnyslope, North, etc., and other high school's campuses. Have you seen neighborhoods downtown? Even those of lower income and the amenities that have been added? For instance, the average class size at North, Central, and Alhambra is 25, 24, 26 and their campuses are wonderfully maintained and actually very nice. They may not be new, but they are indeed nice. They all have HUGE sports facilities like stadiums, practice fields, swimming pools, and new classrooms. Downtown is very much more green than any place in Scottsdale, particularly because of old growth of trees, grass, plants, etc. In downtown and the central areas of town, one can rent an apartment for 600 or for 3800. One can own a 180,000 home or a two million dollar condo or a 5 million dollar estate, or a modest 250,000 house in a district with low crime.

Downtown and the CENTRAL CITY PRECINCT of the Phoenix PD report the lowest occurrence of crime in the city and the lowest murder rate. Parks downtown and in the central city would make anything in a suburb look fake and small; Encanto Park, Margaret Hance, Civic Space, Coronado, etc. Maybe were you live isn't as great, and that is not a good thing, but someone doesn't have to leave Phoenix or the central city to experience culture, good schools, great established neighborhoods, and the like.

So from how you speak of your neighborhood and schools, you must live in Maryvale? If so, just so you know, there are areas in New England and the Mid-West that have their own version of Maryvale and MUCH, MUCH worse: Camden, NJ, Newark, NJ, South/North Hartford, CT, South Bridgeport, CT, Waterbury, CT, Flint, MI, Gary, IN, just to name a few. Maryvale pales in comparison to these places.

[griebelh]

Wow-- you guys are going at it like high school forums-- Good job! Way to be!