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Old 09-24-2008, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
17,624 posts, read 21,033,034 times
Reputation: 9284

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredofnova View Post
Don't forget even if you own a home you'll always have to pay property taxes. A home is nothing more to me than a place to rest my weary head. Most people I know that have real substansial wealth were born into it. Owning a home will not make most people wealthy.
By wealth I mean net worth. Whatever your feelings about a home, my point is that for most Americans the largest, and in many cases the total of, their net worth is their home. Most folks do not have 401Ks, few have IRAs of any significance. They don't have substantial savings. Home ownership forces people to invest money into an appreciating asset (and I don't want to hear about the last two years. One goes long on a home). Whether they spend their appreciation on equity removals or reinvestment in a larger property is also irrelevant to the fact that you make money on appreciating assets. Look at all the posts on some parts of C-D complaining about "rich" Californians buying up all the nice properties and pushing up prices in their areas. These Californians are not rich people per se; the rich ones can afford to stay in Cali. They are pretty much just average people who owned homes in an appreciating market area.

Bottom line is if you buy a house and make the payments for 30 years and do not save much, you will be worth a lot more than if you rent for 30 years and do not save much. On the other hand, if you cut your housing expenses to the bone and invest the difference successfully - not all that easy for the average Joe - you could end up with even more. But I'll bet, and every study ever done agrees with me, that the average person will spend the savings on fun and depreciating assets like cars instead.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,711,366 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight rambler View Post
This is a really good point-- Phoenix is no longer a cheap city to live in any more-- at least when it comes to nice, quality, relatively close in neighborhoods. The housing is cheap if you want to live out in BFE-- Queen Creek and Buckeye, as you just named, but also places like Maricopa, Casa Grande, Florence, and Surprise way out there past the 303. You can't even buy a house in Tempe though, even northern Tempe in a mediocre neighborhood, for hardly anything much under $300,000. You're pretty much locked out of the nice parts of south Tempe unless if you can buy a house at least in the 500's. You have to be upper class to afford any of those condos going up in downtown Tempe. Likewise, you won't find much at all in neighborhoods like Arcadia/ NE central Phoenix for under 450k. Forget central/ north Scottsdale, even an older home unless if you can 500, 600, 700k on up. And tiny homes in historic central Phoenix neighborhoods go for a million bucks. There are plenty of close in neighborhoods that are cheap but are also slums. mesa, where I live, is cheaper, but it's also not as nice (especially in the more affordable neighborhoods).

When Phoenix was a much smaller city the formula of buying a cheap home on the outskirts and not worrying so much about commuting and geography worked fine. Now that Phoenix has mushroomed into a megalopolis, that notion is becoming increasingly ridiculous. It's way cheaper than LA, but it's not exactly a bargain any more. Even in southern California you buy brand new homes in the 200's in the far eastern fringes of LA in places like Beaumont, Banning, Moreno Valley, and Hemet, and in desert locales like Palmdale, Lancaster, Victorville, Hesperia, etc. That doesn't mean much though when a commute from those places to job centers in LA and OC could take 3 hours one way. In Phoenix, people are already commuting from Casa Grande and Maricopa to Tempe, Scottsdale, and even downtown Phoenix, and starting to think nothing of it. It's a recipe for disaster. Even for apartment rent, it's cheap if you live in a questionable apartment; renting a really nice place can run you 900, 1000 bucks a month here.

What must really suck is for people who move into a brand new, inexpensive house on the outskirts of town, thinking they are set up with their job-- and then they end up needing a new job, which has them going to the clear other side of town. What are you supposed to do-- move everytime you get a new job? It's an interesting question, especially for me, as I'm renting right now, thinking about buying a place soon-- but the only places I can afford are either WAY the heck out there or really slum dump neighborhoods in Mesa.
You and I must have different definitions of 'nice'.

If you exclude areas that have a significant 'Hispanic' presence (read that Spanish surnames---------which is not always accurate or fair) then yes the housing price numbers you posted are pretty accurate.

Now; if you are OK with larger numbers of Latinos as neighbors; again remember that most of them (US citizens/green card holders that is) are decent folks----------then that opens up lots of places even here in S Scottsdale for well under $200K that are close to Sky Harbor. I use the airport as a proxy for being close to most/all of one's big city amenities.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:50 AM
 
3,886 posts, read 6,397,909 times
Reputation: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredofnova View Post
Don't forget even if you own a home you'll always have to pay property taxes. A home is nothing more to me than a place to rest my weary head. Most people I know that have real substansial wealth were born into it. Owning a home will not make most people wealthy.
Yes, and lately it will make you poor, "house poor" that is. Renting is my choice if I can ever get out of my house.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:44 PM
 
Location: The Miami Of Canada
1,044 posts, read 2,607,999 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
When Bill Clinton signed away the protection of the home loan ( that was put in place after the depression)and allowed it to be envolved in the stock market again thats when this monster started to grow. Even though some protested and said it would lead to what we experience now. Greenspan assured Clinton it was ok. A lot of free trade as well, all good, good, good.
Thank you for posting the truth. Too many people blame the Republicans for this and 911, but these issues began before Bush took office.

Quote:
Oh, and if you are really sick of the government bull, vote independent, forget parties and just pick the best person.
I wish there was an Independent running that could truly win this election. If I had things my way, I would vote Libertarian, but unfortunately, I don't think they have a shot at winning.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
5,471 posts, read 14,450,582 times
Reputation: 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
You and I must have different definitions of 'nice'.

If you exclude areas that have a significant 'Hispanic' presence (read that Spanish surnames---------which is not always accurate or fair) then yes the housing price numbers you posted are pretty accurate.

Now; if you are OK with larger numbers of Latinos as neighbors; again remember that most of them (US citizens/green card holders that is) are decent folks----------then that opens up lots of places even here in S Scottsdale for well under $200K that are close to Sky Harbor. I use the airport as a proxy for being close to most/all of one's big city amenities.
Playing the race card I see-- nice.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:52 PM
 
Location: The Miami Of Canada
1,044 posts, read 2,607,999 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by esselcue View Post
There is no future or monetary gain in renting. You are just throwing money away each month.
I can't entirely agree with that. I do own property, but have considered renting when I finalize that place I am moving to. When you own, you have property taxes and repairs that are always unexpected along with assessments if you are part of an association. Exterior maintenance and upkeep are a given responsibility unless you live in a condo and then it comes out of the assessments. Utilities are always more expensive when owning a home. Plus having to worry about making the home look just right when it comes time to sell and hoping the sale goes through by the time you need to move.

Many people have told me they were happy to be free of the headache of responsibility of ownership. Just something to consider.

Last edited by ITChick; 09-24-2008 at 07:26 PM..
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:56 PM
 
Location: GIlbert, AZ
2,838 posts, read 2,673,880 times
Reputation: 1795
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
I have to say, I'm kind of curious how the folks who were cheering on the housing collapse when it first began are feeling now. I remember when prices first started falling, how many people here on this board were extremely pleased.

Still pleased?
Pleased but angry at those who caused the problem?
Seeing light at the end of the tunnel?
Seeing further doom and gloom?
Surprised by how things have spiraled into a big mess?
Not surprised by that at all?

Not criticizing those folks - clearly there was a LOT of dirty-dealing going on in the housing/mortgage industry that had inflated prices, and many locals were being priced out of the housing market - just curious how they feel about it now.

Ken
acutally Im sorry it isnt falling faster. Im hoping to buy a home at 2000-2001 levels.
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:28 PM
 
Location: GIlbert, AZ
2,838 posts, read 2,673,880 times
Reputation: 1795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotinthecity View Post
Next time I move somewhere, I'm defintely renting for 2 years before I decide to
purchase. I didn't research the job market here and didn't realize that the salary or if you want to call it that was so low. AND, if I hear one more time that it is because of lower cost of living.... they are wrong. Never paid $260 a month in A/C bills back in Cali and I was getting paid really well in finance. Who makes $9-$11 an hour anymore? The people of AZ need to start paying their employees a lot better out here!
you get lured by the many jobs available, thing is your right, they pay so so pathetic here. Its hard to even save up enough to escape. My wifes former job paid 16 an hour, but here the same company pays 7-10 dollars an hour. Housing cost about the same, gas is about the same, groceries cost about the same.
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Old 09-24-2008, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,711,366 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight rambler View Post
Playing the race card I see-- nice.
No: culture card..............Middle Class people tend to have quite similar values no matter their race/ethnicity.
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:11 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 6,397,909 times
Reputation: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITChick View Post
Thank you for posting the truth. Too many people blame the Republicans for this and 911, but these issues began before Bush took office.



I wish there was an Independent running that could truly win this election. If I had things my way, I would vote Libertarian, but unfortunately, I don't think they have a shot at winning.

Thanks! Yeah, so many people don't know how all this happened. They think it happened over night, and I recently have been digging into it and found a lot of really amazing info on it all. The government has kept it hush hush for awhile as well. Now it seems like the sky is falling. It's just like digging into both candidates health plans, they both suck and won't really change anything. To change this, WE need to do it. Independent of government. Stop playing the game and totally take control. Like Robin Hood it. lol

Independent is just registering to vote for any candidate you see fit for the position. Dem. Rep. or Libertarian. It isn't a party. That was my point. No party, just voting for who you think should be president. They can be from any party. You're thinking of Liberal. If everyone started registering Independent, the parties and candidates would freak. All of a sudden what we say would mean a lot more. Sort of a peaceful revolution. They wouldn't know what to think. No dominating parties, aaawwww.

Last edited by twiggy; 09-24-2008 at 09:21 PM..
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