Mill Avenue (Tempe) designated a 'Great Street'

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Overall, I'd say that Mill is good but not great. Its two weaknesses are the following: 1) The City of Tempe's questionable decision to provide incentives to Tempe Marketplace. Incentives for retail are never a good idea, but they're particularly bad when they underwrite a sprawlish collection of chains at the expense of an established business district. 2) The demise of the local music scene. It used to be that you could walk along Mill and have a choice of live acts in different clubs. That's no longer the case, and it seems that one way Mill could remain competitive is by trying to lure live music back to the area.

I'll give a third weakness: the lack of sporting events. I had no problem with the Cardinals moving to Glendale because the stadium they were using in Tempe was insignificant. However, the Fiesta Bowl also went to Glendale ... and that was a completely wrong move! Since the Fiesta Bowl is a major college championship game, it should have stayed at ASU's Sun Devil Stadium. The absence of that alone, I believe, has contributed to a weakening downtown area.

And yes, I've also noticed the lacking of the local music scene in Tempe lately. There used to be the Bash on Ash (off of Mill Avenue) where many local and national bands would play. It has since been turned into offices. What I'm really disappointed in is how Harkins, and nearby shops & eateries have moved out of downtown, and over to Tempe Marketplace. During a time when there is more demand for centralized locations, Tempe's incentive for a suburban styled mall area was not a good idea.

[homlish560]

Tempe is pretty cool, but Westgate center in Glendale is even better, very new compared to Mill avenue. Pro-sports, good shopping and a good choice of restaurnts all in the mix.

[zenkonami]

And I give Westgate 10 years before it starts degrading unless Glendale makes some real smart choices about public transit, highway expansion, commercial office zoning and residential zoning. They could have themselves a second "downtown" if they do it right, but Valley cities do not have a good history with managing these kinds of things (despite the "Best Run City" moniker.)

[uconn99]

What places have moved to Tempe Market Place?

[Robert A]

Mill Avenue has a lot going for it that most other places in the metro don't. Still, I don't want a "great street," I want a "great neighborhood." Hard to find out here.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Robert A

Mill Avenue has a lot going for it that most other places in the metro don't. Still, I don't want a "great street," I want a "great neighborhood." Hard to find out here.

Not really, especially if you don't live out in "east California" or Anthem. To me, a great neighborhood is not surburban, although many people will say Anthem, Arrowhead, Vistancia, Estrella, etc. are great neighborhoods, I prefer places with history and character where neighbors interact; neighborhoods like Roosevelt, Arcadia, Coronado, Encanto-Palmcroft, Evans-Churchill, North Central, Brentwood, FQ Story, and neighborhoods along the Murphy Bridle Path in Phoenix.

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by uconn99

What places have moved to Tempe Market Place?

The only relocation I can think of is the Harkins cinemas, which closed at Centerpoint shortly after opening at Tempe Marketplace. The real problem is more that businesses at Tempe Marketplace may be drawing crowds away from Mill. For example, Rula Bula now has to compete with another Irish pub a few miles away. Add the exaggerated stories of parking problems on Mill, and some people who used to support businesses on Mill are now spending their money at Tempe Marketplace.

[Robert A]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Not really, especially if you don't live out in "east California" or Anthem. To me, a great neighborhood is not surburban, although many people will say Anthem, Arrowhead, Vistancia, Estrella, etc. are great neighborhoods, I prefer places with history and character where neighbors interact; neighborhoods like Roosevelt, Arcadia, Coronado, Encanto-Palmcroft, Evans-Churchill, North Central, Brentwood, FQ Story, and neighborhoods along the Murphy Bridle Path in Phoenix.

Great for Phoenix? Sure. But even the best we have to offer (places like Coronado, Melrose, etc) lack much in terms of the built environment. Historic suburban homes do not alone make a great neighborhood. I think we've got a lot of hoods I like a whole lot and that are on the cusp, though.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Robert A

Great for Phoenix? Sure. But even the best we have to offer (places like Coronado, Melrose, etc) lack much in terms of the built environment. Historic suburban homes do not alone make a great neighborhood. I think we've got a lot of hoods I like a whole lot and that are on the cusp, though.

These were once historic surburban, however, now are very much urban and have high density development with walkable streets and parks. Not only have small grocery, pharmacy (of the 50's variety) and very soon transit options opened, but people are seeking out these neighborhoods in the form of condos, apartments, and yes historic homes. From my neighborhood, I can walk to a bar/club, hospital, small grocer, dry cleaners, work, parks, soon the lightrail, movies, shopping, restaurants, etc. Something that cannot be said even for the best planned surburban areas.

[Robert A]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

These were once historic surburban, however, now are very much urban and have high density development with walkable streets and parks. Not only have small grocery, pharmacy (of the 50's variety) and very soon transit options opened, but people are seeking out these neighborhoods in the form of condos, apartments, and yes historic homes. From my neighborhood, I can walk to a bar/club, hospital, small grocer, dry cleaners, work, parks, soon the lightrail, movies, shopping, restaurants, etc. Something that cannot be said even for the best planned surburban areas.

Again, "urban" in Phoenix terms? I'll give you that. Better than our MPCs? Undoubtedly. A diverse, bustling, comfortable urban environment? Not even close. We have very little, if any, true high density development. Our best neighborhoods are still made up of (admittedly beautiful) historic single-family homes and apartment complexes with surface lots. The areas are served by multi-lane roadways designed for the car - not the pedestrian. Our most walkable neighborhoods are either overrun with chains or sparsely populated.

I'm certainly not knocking our cool hoods for what they are. I'll take them over anything else out here. I'm just pointing out what they're not. I believe the light rail will help greatly along Central, but we just don't have the infrastructure in place for real urbanism.