Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
American labor has not priced itself out of the market. Rather, American companies have continued to find cheaper alternatives in foreign markets. And the reason those foreign markets can charge less is because they have no minimum wage laws, no safety standards, no minimum age laws, etc. I very seriously doubt you have traveled to Asian countries and personally witnessed the working conditions of those companies. If you did, you would be singing a far different tune. I've personally witnessed companies in India and Thailand and their conditions are extremely barbaric. If those companies had to adhere to the same standards as American companies they couldn't charge the same prices they do. To me, it's just insulting to American companies and our standards by suggesting we have priced ourselves out of the market. American companies are held to a far different standard hence the reason it costs more to produce items here.
Actually I have lived over in East Asia, for multiple years in fact. They work so much harder than we do that it's scary. They also have a different attitude toward business; it's more of a way of life. You have to bargain for 20 minutes for anything. Big corporations in the U.S. are automatically seen as evil, whereas in Asia they're seen as a source of national wealth and power.
The other thing I witnessed in Taiwan was how the students would stand up and bow when the teacher came in the room, and bow again when he/she left. I saw this in junior high school, high school, and colleges. They have such respect for teachers and education over there. I saw high schools with paint peeling off the walls, no fancy sports facilities, no luxuries, just desks and blackboards and the students are miles ahead of us in math, science, literature, history, and just plain manners. It's not perfect over there, but we could learn a thing or two in my opinion.
Actually I have lived over in East Asia, for multiple years in fact. They work so much harder than we do that it's scary. They also have a different attitude toward business; it's more of a way of life. You have to bargain for 20 minutes for anything. Big corporations in the U.S. are automatically seen as evil, whereas in Asia they're seen as a source of national wealth and power.
The other thing I witnessed in Taiwan was how the students would stand up and bow when the teacher came in the room, and bow again when he/she left. I saw this in junior high school, high school, and colleges. They have such respect for teachers and education over there. I saw high schools with paint peeling off the walls, no fancy sports facilities, no luxuries, just desks and blackboards and the students are miles ahead of us in math, science, literature, history, and just plain manners. It's not perfect over there, but we could learn a thing or two in my opinion.
You have traveled to those countries but did you actually witness the working conditions in a manufacturing setting? You are referring to their culture but what does that have to do with the fact that their companies are not held to the same standards as American companies? Those same companies you refer to abuse their employees. In Thailand, they employ children to work in their factories and they will be beaten with a cane if they are seen as being unproductive. One particular adult male employee in India told me he was slapped on the face by a manager because he was angry with him. There is also gender discrimination in those companies; women are not allowed to work certain jobs and are limited to secretarial work. In regards to safety, I saw people working without hardhats, gloves, goggles in a steel manufacturing company in India. If someone was maimed or injured, there would be no recourse for those employees thus the companies are under no pressure to pay the costs to ensure their companies are safe. India is extremely polluted and there are now laws to limit dumping or control exhaust. And in regards to the products themselves, if a bad product enters the market and a customer becomes the victim of a bad product (ie pharmaceuticals in India being misdosed), there is no recourse for the customer or patient to complain. I've treated patients in this country who purchased Viagra in India and one of them became extremely hypotensive to the point he had to be admitted to the ICU and started on fluids because the medication was impropery dosed according to its label. The wealthy people in India asked me to bring them pharmaceutical samples from this country because they didn't want to take the risk of taking medication produced in their own country.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 04-23-2009 at 10:25 AM..
That's a case of a counterfeit product. Pfizer produces drugs on all corners of the globe. I've seen the fake Viagra being sold on the streets of Myanmar. it's quite obvious it's not genuine.
I really don't like the Walmart here prices keep going pu and up If we want something at a Bargain here we have to drive 40 miles from here
However we have a store called Mighty Dollar here were everything is a Dollar that helps out on some things here
No, they offer benefits to inspire loyalty and thus productivity in addition to doing what is in the best interest of their employees.
Absolutely not. Fringe benefits for large companies exist only to "attract" and retain the best people - it's really no more complicated than that. I guarantee that as unemployment rises and consequently the available labor pool increases, more benefits will be slashed. It's happening already.
Quote:
Starbucks expanded too quickly as a result of their success. They have been charging high prices for coffee for years yet that never seemed to hurt it's demand.
So it's "ethical" for a company to price gouge the masses for its products yet Wal-Mart can't exclude health benefits for part-time workers to keep prices low? And before you say we have a choice about where to buy a cup of coffee then I say people have a choice where they work.
This is all moot anyway because your shining example of corporate "caring" is already cutting those health benefits as illustrated by this excerpt from the Starbucks Worker Union page:
"The rug has been pulled out from under us, my friends. Starbucks had this in mind over 8 months ago, but enforced it in the first two weeks of this quarter, thus ensuring that most people would not make the quarterly requirements for benefits."
Do you think people work for Microsoft for its health insurance. And you are calling me naive.
I'm calling you naive because you seem to feel that any entity that shows a profit should be somehow "ethically" compelled to distribute it among all the minions who knew they weren't entitled those profits to begin with. (unlike shareholders that take ALL the risk).
You obviously don't own any stock.
If you really want to complain... ask your city, county, state what they're doing with the tax revenue these stores generate. It's enough to run some countries entire economies.
Quote:
Nope, I'm just arguing ethics. I don't feel a company should be forced to pay for benefits
My whole point is to illustrate that it is "we" as consumers that really determine the expenditures of most large companies. And Wal-Mart today is a testament to that fact. A lot of you people feign sympathy for the so-called underprivileged employee on the grounds of ethics but the reality is... most of us (including you) will be the first to line up for that nuclear powered lint roller when it goes on sale and it really doesn't matter who's selling it - just so long as it's cheaper than the other guy. And the well-being of the employee responsible for stocking it on the shelf be damned. This is simply how it works my friend.
Quote:
Large companies do seek to be productive. Happy employees are more productive and studies have shown that.
What a load of crap. I'm reminded of the "dot.com" boom of the 90's with the unshaven office staffs zipping through their offices on skateboards, walking their dogs in the halls wearing pajamas and sitting around all day thinking up meaningless "mission statements" so they could all feel good about what it is they do.
In reality, supply, demand, a fair market value for wages along with effective cost cutting measures drive a sustainable business model - not freaking, "happiness".
Quote:
How many companies have Wal-Marts presence, supply-chain infrastructure etc. Not many so it's simply assinine to assume that some new company will just trump Wal-Mart because they are paying for health insurance and charging slightly higher prices.
If you raise prices (no matter how noble the cause), you risk losing market share. It's that simple. Again, you obviously don't own any stock and if you did, you wouldn't expect the Board of Directors to squander your earnings just to make the employees "happy". At least not without some kind of monetary return on that "investment". And productivity isn't necessarily tied to monetary fulfillment. Indeed, the very company you chastise contradicts that.
Instead of working to bring everyone to the top, you guys insist on knocking those that are already there down to their knees. And with total disregard for the repercussions that action would bring. Amazing.
Quote:
Gotta love the personal attack response when someone doesn't have an answer.
This is a forum... only words on a screen. How can you take something "personally" from somebody you don't know? I have no reason to believe you're not a great boss and nice persone. I just suspect you haven't quite thought things through.
Quote:
A lot of companies posted losses because of the economy. Target is also the 5th largest retailer and just expanded outside the continental United States for the first time. It was ranked 31 on the Fortune 500 list in 2008. It also grew considerably in the last 15 years due to it's perception as being the antithesis to Wal-Mart.
Dude, That's so "last year". Have you seen Target's 1st quarter for this year? The defining character of a good company is how much fat it has to trim during lean years. I'll bet you 2 shares of Wal-Mart stock that Target will soon follow Starbucks lead. As unemployment rises and more people look for jobs... Other than key staff, the full time Target employee will indeed become rare.
Quote:
Another weak example! Target actually provides quality services that are in demand.
Err... like what for instance? I assume you mean, "unique" services. I'm not aware of any services they provide that you can't get elsewhere (for less money).
Quote:
GM and Ford, on the other hand, have been losing consumer confidence consistently over the last two decades as a result of poor quality and poor design.
Do you know it costs GM, Ford and Chrysler roughly $70 and hour to maintain each employee? Versus only $40 for Toyota? Say goodbye to Detroit... courtesy of the UAW.
Quote:
While companies like Honda and Toyota were producing hybrid cars, the American companies were slow to catch on to that trait. This is one example
It's a poor example at best. Hybrids barely eeked out 2% of total sales in January. Nobody wants 'em. And nobody wants to buy our auto makers either... unless the employees stop demanding so many... BENEFITS.
My Thai GFs son just got laid off from Siam Toyota. A Toyota factory on the outskirts of BKK. He liked his job and the cars they build are just as good as the American Toyos or the Japanese. The factory is ISO-9002. He was paid about 150 usd per month. Had his own apartment and no debt. Even Toyota is hurting now.
Do you know it costs GM, Ford and Chrysler roughly $70 and hour to maintain each employee? Versus only $40 for Toyota? Say goodbye to Detroit... courtesy of the UAW.
I don't know if the $40 / hour figure is for American Toyota employees or Japanese ones, but in Japan they have a universal health care system easing the potential burden on employers to foot the bill. We have no such system in the United States.
I don't know if the $40 / hour figure is for American Toyota employees or Japanese ones, but in Japan they have a universal health care system easing the potential burden on employers to foot the bill. We have no such system in the United States.
Thats what I'm saying! I dont' get why everyone blames the Unions for high over head in American Companies. Blame the Government for not subsidizing heath care, and education like most every other industrialized nation on this planet. It's a vicious circle, Companies lay off thousands then sit back a wait for consumer spending and earnings reports.
Who's going to buy these high end products if American workers don't make high end wages!!!!
You think people in Maylaysia can afford to buy the products they produce????
I don't know if the $40 / hour figure is for American Toyota employees or Japanese ones, but in Japan they have a universal health care system easing the potential burden on employers to foot the bill. We have no such system in the United States.
The Toyota $40/hour is for the U.S. The big difference is wages and union negotiated retirement packages over the years which even GM admits to be their biggest obstacle.
And I certainly wouldn't use Japan as a Utopian model for nationalized health coverage considering their economy is worse then ours. And Great Britain just invoked the 50% tax bracket to pay for theirs.
Good, bad or indifferent... the U.S. is headed for some type of nationalized "hybrid" system. But congress will need to push this through before Obama's first term ends. Whatever we end up with though, will make the IRS look like a well-oiled machine.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
