Light rail opens TODAY (Dec 27th)...go check it out! (Phoenix: luxury, tax)

[tijlover]

Chandler Guy is either either a frustrated car salesman, auto mechanic, police officer, municipal court employee or an automobile insurance agent, threatened by the loss of his job from expansion of LRT in Phoenix.

NOW! I've made several trips to Central America where there is NO metro rail of any kind, BUT which enjoys one of the best mass transit systems I've ever experienced. But that type of third world mass transit system would not be palatable to most Americans, deeming it not aesthetic or comfortable enough, but anytime I'm down there I love partaking in, what I deem to be, the most "luxurious" transit system anywhere. My biggest complaint with the buses is they're too slow. Why? All the time it takes for passengers to fish coins from their pockets and purses and plug those meters. In Central America they have their brightly colored chicken buses (our old school buses) where you jump on board, take a seat and a fare collector goes down the aisles to collect your fare. In transit, you have armies of vendors who hop on, hop off, trying to sell passengers anything from fried chicken, sandwiches, candy, pharmaceutical products, vitamins to razor blades. AND, you don't have to be at a designated bus stop, like in this country, you merely wave your hand and they stop for you, and when you want to get off, you just holler and they'll stop, luckily, maybe, right in front of your house. AND, they are all privately owned buses. Scrap the public bus transportation system, and make each bus privately owned. Doesn't private enterprise do a better job anyway?

Secondary to chicken buses, they have these big pick-ups with a tarp covering the back with poles to hang on to and long wooden benches. This is for the poorest of the poor to use, but, there, I have used them as well, as I love standing in the back of one of these pick-ups with the wind blasting against my body at 30,40,50MPH. Oh, what a rush! Think of all the big pick-ups prowling the streets of Phoenix which could be converted to being part of the transit system of Phoenix. And, believe me, the public would welcome this optional additon, given the hot days in Phoenix, to ride in the back of a pick-up to work or to shop.

And then, there's the motorized buggy-like rickshaws available prowling the streets as well.

BUT, being such a litigious country, unfortunately,I doubt whether any of this would sail here. But anytime I'm visiting Central America I look forward to using their transit system, and rarely, if ever, do I have to wait more than a few minutes for the next bus or pick-up or rickshaw.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

What? How does what you said make any sense?

In San Diego, the downtown area and the Gaslap District specifically, it not on the water...what does water have to do with it's redevelopment? And Denver redeveloped because it had businesses? That's the point...it didn'y have businesses, which is what came during the redevelopment, hence the word redeveopment.

How does Downtown Phoenix not have any theatres? What about Dodge...Orpheum...Herberger...and the Symphony? If not in downtown, where would you go to see a play or listen to the symphony?

I know there are no dentists, doctors, food stores...and again, that's the point of trying to redevelop it...it attract those businesses to downtown and have residents follow them. I'm sure you've heard of the AJs opening up downtown, plus a few retail stores. It's not the end all of redevelopment, but it's a step.

Phoenix has several theatres as you say, but they are all spread out. Downtown is dead after dark unless there is a game and then most of it is still dead. I was in Denver years ago and there were tall buildings and oil money and people actually lived there. Just not the same. Who takes visitors here downtown? Tourists come here to lay in the sun and play golf, eat and drink out. The sun is everywhere, but the golf, restaurants and bars are near the tourists. It the chicken and egg thing. They've tried the chicken (the many schemes I mentioned) now they are going to try the egg. As I said, we'll see. I'm expecting downtown to look pretty much the same 10 years from now as it currently does with maybe a couple more gov buildings. Conversely, I expect Westgate to explode. The difference? Not light rail, but easy access from motor vehicles and a burgeoning population.

[chandlerguy]

Originally Posted by Lincolnian

It's a good thing we have government then to step in. Light rail will be part of the long-term solution to gaining our energy independence. Oil demand is temporarily down but will resume to previous levels in the near future. Growing trouble in the Middle East will see prices of crude steadily increasing.

One thing that is certain about markets are that "they have a memory." Crude hit $147 and will revisit it in the near future. Once the US and global economy begin to recover crude oil prices will rapidly resume the upward movement.

Light rail, alternative energy plans, such as the Pickens Plan, will become essential components of our nations ability to remain competitive in the world marketplace. Now is the time to invest in our infrastructure!

Light rail does nothing for energy independence. The problem is that LR or any other of these types of transportation use electricity which has to be generated somehow. OK, I know most people never think about electricity so, let's list the "alternatives" that are used to power light rail:

oil
natural gas
coal
nuclear

One of the things most people never consider is that energy is lost to generate electricity, and even more is lost to transport it on power lines.

Even if enough electricity could be generated by wind or solar to run LR, it would only work during peak generating times. There is no technology that would allow us to store the electricity for early mornings, evenings etc.

The Pikens plan will make him rich because many of Arizona's power plants burn natural gas. That way we can be dependent on Texas and other producers of LNG that have limited supplies.

Whatever argument can be made for LR or other electricity powered transportation systems, energy independence isn't one of them. Neither is green either, that is unless you think the Palo Verde nuke is green, or the Four Corners coal fired generators.

[chandlerguy]

Originally Posted by joninaz

Apparently some people in this town didn't get a choo choo as a child. Or is it that many are suffering from some form of object envy? But fear not that I'm pouting. The air is cleaner, the traffic smoother and we're definitely more of a cosmopolitan city - Just today I was called a hater 5 times. Too funny.

When people don't have rational arguments they often resort to using labels like "hater" or "hate filled". It's a tactic used by mental midgets. They like to reduce good threads into a name calling contest instead of debating facts. It's a form of trolling that is widely condoned and supported in the forum. The brown shirters will lock threads when they are losing arguments over the trolley car boondoggle. Expect this one to be locked anytime since they are losing once again.

I haven't figured out if the bullies on this forum are Nazis or Commies, but either way their brutish tactics shouldn't be tolerated.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by chandlerguy

Light rail does nothing for energy independence.

So what? It was not one of the advertised benefits.

[Greatday]

If one were to look at the San Diego system, they would find that the vast majority of the lines do not go to/through tourist or downtown areas.

One leg skirts the edge of the Horton / Gas Lamp area - down to San Jaciinto (sp?). From the downtown station - there is a leg that goes through a small part of downtown and towards' the east.

One must consider that the Light Rail in Phoenix is in its beginning stages - and it seems the opponents are suggesting that every leg should have been built at one time - which of course is foolish.

The leg of the LR down Central Avenue, the main business area of the valley, to the financial district is, I believe, as long as, if not longer than, the segment of the downtown rail in SD

OBTW: to the Opponents of LR: How long was the initial segment of the San Diego Trolley line?

[chandlerguy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

So what? It was not one of the advertised benefits.

One thing I just hate is when people think they are so well informed but they have no clue what they are talking about. DoubleTalkDay, you really aren't worth my time but just in case somebody is reading this thread that wants to be informed here ya go:

US Transit Ridership Surges - Crisis Deepens - "New Deal" Economic Investment in Public Transport - Light Rail Now
American Public Transportation Association (APTA): "To sum it up, public transportation is good for the economy, good for the environment, and good for energy independence", says Millar.

[chandlerguy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

If one were to look at the San Diego system, they would find that the vast majority of the lines do not go to/through tourist or downtown areas.

One leg skirts the edge of the Horton / Gas Lamp area - down to San Jaciinto (sp?). From the downtown station - there is a leg that goes through a small part of downtown and towards' the east.

One must consider that the Light Rail in Phoenix is in its beginning stages - and it seems the opponents are suggesting that every leg should have been built at one time - which of course is foolish.

The leg of the LR down Central Avenue, the main business area of the valley, to the financial district is, I believe, as long as, if not longer than, the segment of the downtown rail in SD

OBTW: to the Opponents of LR: How long was the initial segment of the San Diego Trolley line?

As I explained in my own thread Moderator cut: not allowed , light rail in Phoenix goes through Hispanic, black, and poor white neighborhoods. Other cities are no different. Nobody with influence is going to allow these boondoggles to ruin their hoods.

[chandlerguy]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Chandler Guy is either either a frustrated car salesman, auto mechanic, police officer, municipal court employee or an automobile insurance agent, threatened by the loss of his job from expansion of LRT in Phoenix.

My livelihood doesn't depend in any way on that turkey, except for the fact that I was suckered into voting for it. It's no threat to me because my neighborhood has enough clout to never allow light rail even close to our houses. If it's forced on the city we will make sure it goes down Country Club road and through downtown Chandler so the day workers can use it -- and hopefully they will go to Phoenix!

I am sure most people in my neighborhood support LR because most of them are socialist liberal numbnuts just like you, but they become screaming conservatives anytime someone tries to screw with their neighborhood. Liberals only want this kind of trash put in poor minority neighborhoods.

Come to think of it, maybe I could get some lucrative contracts if it comes to Chandler. All I have to do is to fork over some payola to our corrupt city council and it will be a done deal. You just changed my mind: my new motto is "bring light rail to downtown Chandler".

[sablebaby]

Are you guys about ready to cool off?

I believe some people need to be aware that this is a PRIVATELY owned site, which means there are rules and you must obey them, or you can be asked to leave. This isn't "internet censorship". The owners of this site want this to be a USEFUL place for people to turn to when they need information on areas to MOVE. It's not here for people to debate OPINIONS to death.

Personally, I could care LESS about the light rail. Ride it, or don't ride it. I don't care. Just be RESPECTFUL to each other while posting. Okie dokie?