Photo radar banned in Pinal county!

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

The Governor is supposed to implement changes that reflect what a majority of citizens favor. As you have likely noticed, the use of photo radar is widely unpopular. Admittedly, it's difficult at this point to tell if a majority of Arizonans are actually against it ... but the way to decide that is to do the right thing and put it to a public vote.

Napolitano has also pushed through other changes without approval from the majority. The renaming of Squaw Peak was met with a large amount of opposition ... as was her reluctance to enforce the illegal hiring law. Now she wants easier access for state employees to become unionized. Yes, she has the authority to implement changes, but in her case, I think she has abused her authority.



I stated that we have voted on practically everything. However, Arizona has historically had a large number of initiatives on the ballots. There are valid reasons for that. Traditionally, this state has strong conservative/Libertarian principles ... and we believe that the CITIZENS (not the government) should have the final say in policy changes or fiscal matters that involve how the state collects revenue. The citizens have been allowed to vote on major issues over the years such as the lottery, the MLK holiday, abortion, medical marijuana, smoking in public places, and transit initiatives (just to name a few). Certainly, photo radar is major enough to warrant voter approval!

Many of the initiatives were placed there to override the "conservative/libertarian" legislature which rarely reflects the will of the people or because the same legislature lacked the political will to do the right thing and voters had to step up to the plate. The long tradition of plebiscites is evidence of unresponsive government, not the opposite.

Anyway, majority rule leads to tyranny. Only the educated elite truly values democracy. Our founding fathers were wise in choosing a republican form of government where the recklessness of the majority is moderated by the reason and knowledge of educated representatives. (Arizona may be an exception).

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Only the educated elite truly values democracy.

Horse pucky

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Many of the initiatives were placed there to override the "conservative/libertarian" legislature which rarely reflects the will of the people or because the same legislature lacked the political will to do the right thing and voters had to step up to the plate. The long tradition of plebiscites is evidence of unresponsive government, not the opposite.

You're rationale is headed in the right direction, but not 100% correct. A good example of a huge controversy (much like photo radar) that occured roughly 20 years ago was the MLK holiday. Governor Mecham rescinded it after the previous Governor (Babbitt) pushed it through as an executive order. In reality, BOTH Babbit and Mecham were wrong. Babbitt should have allowed the voters to approve the matter ... but when Mecham took over in 1987, he shouldn't have rescinded the order without a public vote either. You might recall that the MLK issue caused extensive bitterness, and was one of the things that prompted a recall movement against Mecham. Eventually, it worked out for the better because Arizona became the FIRST state to approve a paid MLK holiday via public vote.

That's what I meant by conservative/Libertarian. As a state, we tend to be anti tax & anti spending ... but we also tend to be against large, instrusive government dictating how we live. When a Governor pushes something through without approval from the citizens, it's going to cause rebellion. That's why some of the photo radar cameras have been vandalized, and why there is a large vocal opposition against it. Now, the right thing to do in order to lessen the controversy would be to allow the citizens to have the final say.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Anyway, majority rule leads to tyranny. Only the educated elite truly values democracy. Our founding fathers were wise in choosing a republican form of government where the recklessness of the majority is moderated by the reason and knowledge of educated representatives. (Arizona may be an exception).

Recklessness of the MAJORITY??? What about recklessness from our elected officials who obey only the laws they want to obey, and who sign legislation based on their own selfish/political interests? Arizona is not the backwater you seem to think it is. The citizens of this state are nothing like those in the Bible Belt states. On the other hand, we're not like Massachusetts or New York where taxes are sky high, and judges who rule from the bench override the citizens. Sorry, but I don't want "educated representatives" (who are anything but educated) to rule my life, and supposedly protect me from the boogey man. I drive fast, but safe ... and still have a perfect driving record (no accidents or moving violations). I don't need, nor want, robotic devices to dictate how slow I must drive to appease those who don't know how to drive on a highway!

[RCR]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Anyway, majority rule leads to tyranny. Only the educated elite truly values democracy. Our founding fathers were wise in choosing a republican form of government where the recklessness of the majority is moderated by the reason and knowledge of educated representatives. (Arizona may be an exception).

So if I was to paraphrase that, you are saying the majority is uneducated and needs to be led in the right direction by the "educated" minority.

[61scout80]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Yes! The voters in Pinal County obviously didn't want photo radar ... so since they didn't get a chance to vote on an actual initiative in the past election, they did the next best thing: they elected a Sheriff who is highly opposed to a robotic police force. Mega kudos to Sheriff Babeu! He sounds like one of the few politicians who doesn't behave like a politician.

Sheriff Paul's views on photo radar, REAL public safety and better equipping officers is why he gained my vote. I'm thrilled to see that he is sticking to his word post election. We in Pinal County made a wise choice.

The former sheriff allowed the photo revenue to begin. now i know some of you feel these cameras make you safer. BUT the former sheriff also never required his officers to have first aid training! no cpr certificates! that means when someone speeds passed the photo revenue device, doesn't slow down since and officer isn't pursuing him then smashes into you the responding sheriffs deputy didn't even know the basics on saving your life! Wow, so much for the elected supporters of photo revenue caring for your safety.


here is what else the new sheriff is up to, i must say i'm pleased.

New sheriff plans improved service

By Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu

January 1, 2009

There are significant organizational changes coming to our Sheriff’s Office. I have a phased plan, which is designed to improve safety and service for Pinal County families.
In an organization with 700 employees, leadership becomes all the more important. That is why I’m replacing the top seven leaders and appointing professionals selected for their proven record of achievement. I have reclassified and eliminated five additional positions. This restructuring will produce $400,000 in annual salary savings, which shall be re-directed towards hiring additional deputies.
All employees will understand that systemic improvements shall be made in our operations. Immediate training in First Aid/CPR, report writing and investigations shall be mandatory for all deputies, commencing in late January. We shall assess the current deployment of our limited patrol resources in order to maximize our ability to keep you safe and respond timely to all emergencies. The development of this plan shall include the full input, thoughts and ideas of all patrol deputies, corporals, sergeants and lieutenants, who best understand our challenges. They will brief me on their courses of action (COA), and I will approve the best plan to ensure success.
I have recruited a highly trained and qualified grants administrator, who will coordinate the application and management of grant monies. PCSO does not have a coordinator and, therefore, lost millions in state and federal monies. I have also hired a training coordinator for our volunteer posse and certified Mounted Unit. We shall grow our posse two or threefold to enhance service and perform such functions as transporting prisoners for deputies. This shall keep deputies in neighborhoods and responding to calls, rather than transporting prisoners to Florence and spending hours on the booking, processing of paperwork, fingerprints and photographs.
The SWAT team shall be dramatically reorganized to achieve higher standards for training and performance. A youth Explorer program shall be started to allow our teenagers positive interaction with deputies in a disciplined program, focusing on education in law enforcement, fitness and civic involvement. You will soon be able to obtain copies of Police/Sheriff’s Reports from your local substation. In addition to streamlining operations, installing computers in every patrol vehicle shall be achieved within my first year in office.
I have promised to end the photo radar program, which is managed by the Pinal County Sheriff’s Office. I have already met with executives of Redflex, which is the private contractor who operates the camera vans and processes the ticketing. At this meeting, Redflex agreed to end their contract effective January 1 when I assume office. Promise made – promise delivered. I am honored to serve as your Sheriff for the next four years. I will be relentless in pursuit of improved service through increased discipline, training and accountability.
Respectfully,
Paul R. Babeu, Sheriff
Pinal County, Arizona

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by RCR

So if I was to paraphrase that, you are saying the majority is uneducated and needs to be led in the right direction by the "educated" minority.

No, I am saying that democracy would soon disappear if we had true majority rule and that democracy in America flourishes because it is valued and protected by the elite class. Check out The Irony of Democracy, by Thomas R Dye. It was my textbook in a college course back in the day and it had a large impact in shaping my views on American politics.

[Baja Boomer]

No, I am saying that democracy would soon disappear if we had true majority rule and that democracy in America flourishes because it is valued and protected by the elite class.

I agree that democracy would soon disappear if we had true majority rule. One of the greatest (and most often overlooked) things about our Constitution is the way it protects minorities from the majority. BUT-- what is your definition of "the elite class"? What exactly do you mean by that, because it sounds really offensive.

[osat]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Anyway, majority rule leads to tyranny. Only the educated elite truly values democracy. Our founding fathers were wise in choosing a republican form of government where the recklessness of the majority is moderated by the reason and knowledge of educated representatives. (Arizona may be an exception).

That statement is ignorant, isn't?
And beside, democracy is NOT a political nor economic system, it is just add to a certain political reality or system.
Tell me, can democrat support republic?
Can republican support democracy?

If you put a line between republic and democracy ... wow!