01-06-2009, 11:07 AM
Location: Yes
2,667 posts, read
6,779,210 times
Reputation: 908
How many people actually ride it from end to end?
01-06-2009, 11:42 AM
7,076 posts, read
12,345,554 times
Reputation: 6439
I am curious. What are all of the attractions along the new light rail line in Phoenix (ie malls, theme parks, stadiums/arenas, museums, convention centers) stuff like that? These are all things that help boost ridership in other cities with rail.
01-06-2009, 11:55 AM
549 posts, read
1,559,198 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by
urbancharlotte
I am curious. What are all of the attractions along the new light rail line in Phoenix (ie malls, theme parks, stadiums/arenas, museums, convention centers) stuff like that? These are all things that help boost ridership in other cities with rail.
Mill Avenue, ASU, Sky Harbor Airport, Phoenix Convention Center, CityScape (under construction), Chase Field (Diamondbacks), US Airways Center (Suns), City Hall, Phoenix Art Museum, Heard Museum, City Library, Christown Spectrum Mall, the Civic Center Space (under construction)...several, really.
01-06-2009, 12:22 PM
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read
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Reputation: 3861
As for the 'socialist' factor:
freeways also come to mind; never mind that
all taxpayers fund them-------pedestrians are
not usually allowed on them.
The above stated: freeways
and Light Rail both have their uses.
01-06-2009, 12:24 PM
Location: 602/520
2,441 posts, read
7,008,155 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by
urbancharlotte
OK... Rail lovers and Rail haters, let me share some insight.
I am not crying socialism, nor am I against allocations for bus transit. I am against light-rail because it isn't necessary. It is blatantly obvious that you have never been to Phoenix. Charlotte's downtown is lightyears ahead of Phoenix. Light-rail in Charlotte is necessary. Light-rail began in Charlotte when the economy was in better shape. There are a number of headquarters and regional headquarters that have recently located in Downtown (Uptown
) Charlotte. That's not the case in Phoenix. The Phoenix area has more than 4 times the population of the Charlotte area. Our light-rail also travels on a longer route (9.6 miles vs. 20 miles). Therefore, to compare your tiny metro area to Phoenix's massive area makes no sense.
01-06-2009, 12:25 PM
Location: 602/520
2,441 posts, read
7,008,155 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by
urbancharlotte
I am curious. What are all of the attractions along the new light rail line in Phoenix (ie malls, theme parks, stadiums/arenas, museums, convention centers) stuff like that? These are all things that help boost ridership in other cities with rail.
Nothing. This is exactly the point.
01-06-2009, 12:30 PM
549 posts, read
1,559,198 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miamiman
The problem here is that Phoenix is simply moving too fast. This city is so hellbent on trying to be like Los Angeles or Philadelphia that it does not realize the foolish mistakes it making. We have a weaker downtown than ANY city in the United States with light-rail. Light-rail will not make downtown any less lame than it is now.
That's nonsense. We were downtown just two days ago and there were people walking around, getting on and off the train - with no Suns game, no Diamondbacks game. We ate at a new restaurant and saw people walking to and from the Dodge Theater.
Light rail has a singular advantage over buses in that it's a fixed, obvious track, with clear stations. Buses don't have that advantage. People use rail to get to specific spots and back. And that's exactly what they're doing. If you bring people downtown, the restaurants and bars start to open - exactly what happened in Denver in the early 1990's.
01-06-2009, 12:44 PM
7,076 posts, read
12,345,554 times
Reputation: 6439
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miamiman
I am not crying socialism, nor am I against allocations for bus transit. I am against light-rail because it isn't necessary. It is blatantly obvious that you have never been to Phoenix. Charlotte's downtown is lightyears ahead of Phoenix. Light-rail in Charlotte is necessary. Light-rail began in Charlotte when the economy was in better shape. There are a number of headquarters and regional headquarters that have recently located in Downtown (Uptown
) Charlotte. That's not the case in Phoenix. The Phoenix area has more than 4 times the population of the Charlotte area. Our light-rail also travels on a longer route (9.6 miles vs. 20 miles). Therefore, to compare your tiny metro area to Phoenix's massive area makes no sense.
ROTFLMAO!!! You make Phoenix sound like it is sooooo far away (like in another country or something). The first thing that surprised me about Phoenix was the golf courses and the palm trees. I was also impressed with that massive cap over I-10 near downtown (I kinda thought I was driving through a tunnel). Phoenix looks a lot like LA in many ways and I like your city a lot. Oh yeah, I am a NYC native BTW. Charlotte has a lot of NYC natives you know LOL. I grew up in Charlotte, however I think Phoenix and Charlotte are both "tiny metros" to compare to the cities I have seen, so let's not get into a city vs. city debate because neither city screams urban or "big city" to me.
With that said, I have never lived in Phoenix but I have visited. I am aware of Phoenix's lack of a typical east coast downtown district. That still doesn't mean Phoenix doesn't need light rail. I think all medium large cities could use some form of rail.
01-06-2009, 01:11 PM
73,007 posts, read
62,585,728 times
Reputation: 21919
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chandlerguy
I took the metro from end to end, and that is the last time I'll ride that over-glorified trolley car, even if gas is $10 a gallon. Round trip takes 3 hours not including the drive to the park-and-ride. It starts in the barrios of Mesa and ends at ChrisTown, a mall that was mostly out of business over 25 years ago. The only thing near the Chris-Town stop is a Target with bathrooms that are overused by passengers that have nowhere else to go.
I could walk faster!
The metro, or light rail, or whatever you want to call it goes from nothing to nothing, and in between we get to see the worst blight Phoenix has to offer. I never knew there were so many seedy motels, bulldozed buildings, and foreclosed condos in Phoenix.
Out of the 30 stops (not including stops at red lights) there are about 4 that go somewhere that sane humans would want to go to. Unfortunately everyone that rides this contraption will soon learn that the metro is the last choice on how to get to one of these spots. In almost all cases you will have to catch a bus after you get off the rail in order to go someplace useful -- or take a taxi. Why not just take the bus in the first place and save yourselves the hassle?
The Phoenix trolley replaced the red line bus, which was probably 5 times faster at a fraction of the cost. What kind of idiot besides mayor Phil Gordon would think that's a good idea?
Unlike the trolley in San Francisco that is useful for tourism, our trolley car serves no useful purpose. Nobody will use it and it clogs our already congested roads. It's powered by electricity that is generated by coal or natural gas, or our nuke at Palo Verde so forget the green thing.
QUESTION : So, for $1.4 billion how many busses could we have bought that runs on green fuels like bio-diesel?ANSWER: About 500 busses!
What Phoenix needed was MAGLEV.
As for the buses, Phoenix could have used it.
Alot of cities have done mass rail transit the right way. Tokyo, London, New York. I know Phoenix is no NYC, or Tokyo, but if it designed its rail syatem based on that of Tokyo, maybe it would work better. MagLev runs on magnetic levitation. No pollution. The green buses are an idea too.
01-06-2009, 01:39 PM
Location: Phoenix, AZ
1,108 posts, read
3,321,048 times
Reputation: 1109
It is not so much that the light rail wasn’t a good idea. It was done on too small a scale – too piecemeal.
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Commute - mean travel time to work (minutes)
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Occupied housing units (%)
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Crime - Burglaries per 100,000 population (5 year average)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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Urban houses (%)
Rural houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Industry diversity
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
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People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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) Charlotte. That's not the case in Phoenix. The Phoenix area has more than 4 times the population of the Charlotte area. Our light-rail also travels on a longer route (9.6 miles vs. 20 miles). Therefore, to compare your tiny metro area to Phoenix's massive area makes no sense.
