Questions on Scottsdale (Phoenix: relocating, apartments, condos)

[sablebaby]

Originally Posted by nevercoldcall

True - Scottsdale has the worst drivers you will ever experience in your life. The best thing about my recent move to Newport Beach is being around people who know how to drive. They actually go when the light turns green!!

I really don't think Scottsdale has the worst drivers at all. I think it's the whole phx metro area, and not just one particular area.

[aj661]

Originally Posted by sablebaby

I really don't think Scottsdale has the worst drivers at all. I think it's the whole phx metro area, and not just one particular area.

It's time to put the Scottsdale drivers vs. Phoenix drivers debate to rest. It's only going to confuse new residents. These are the rules newcomers to the Valley of the Sun must know. Natives and long time residents already know these, so for you, it's only a refresher.

HOW TO DRIVE IN PHOENIX:
1. You must first learn to pronounce the city name, it is: "FEE-NICKS".

2. The morning rush hour is from 5:00am to noon. The evening rush hour is from noon to 7:00pm. Friday's rush hour starts on Thursday morning.

3. The minimum acceptable speed on most freeways is 85 mph. On Loop 101, your speed is expected to match the highway number. Anything less is considered "Wussy".

4. Forget the traffic rules you learned elsewhere. Phoenix has its own version of traffic rules. For example, cars/trucks with the loudest muffler go first at a four-way stop; the trucks with the biggest tires go second. However, East Valley , SUV-driving, cell phone-talking moms ALWAYS have the right of way.

5. If you actually stop at a yellow light, you will be rear ended, cussed out, and possibly shot.

6. Never honk at anyone. Ever. Seriously. It's another offense that can get you shot.

7. Road construction is permanent and continuous in Phoenix. Detour barrels are moved around for your entertainment pleasure during the middle of the night to make the next day's driving a bit more exciting.

8. Watch carefully for road hazards such as drunks, skunks, dogs, barrels, cones, cows, horses, cats, mattresses, shredded tires, Squirrels, rabbits, crows, vultures, javelinas, roadrunners, and the coyotes feeding on any of these items.

9. Maricopa Freeway, Papago Freeway and the "I-10" are the same road. SR202 is the same road as The Red Mountain FWY. Dunlap and Olive are the same street too. Jefferson becomes Washington , but they are not the same street. I-17 is also called The Black Canyon Freeway as well as The Veterans Memorial Highway. And if all that isn't enough to remember SR 51 has recently been renamed to Piestewa Freeway because Squaw Peak Parkway was too easy pronounce. SR 101 is also the Pima FWY except west of I-17, which is also The Black Canyon FWY, and The Veterans Memorial HWY. Lastly, Thunderbird Rd. Becomes Cactus Rd. but, Cactus Rd. doesn't become Thunderbird Rd. Because it dead ends at a mountain.

10. If someone actually has their turn signal on, wave them to the shoulder immediately to let them know it has been "accidentally activated."

11. If you are in the left lane and only driving 70 in a 55-65 mph zone, you are considered a road hazard and will be tail-gated and "flipped off" accordingly. If you return the flip, you'll be shot.

12. For summer driving, it is advisable to wear potholders on your hands.

[sablebaby]

I remember when these were posted before, it cause quite a reckus then.

I do honk at dumb people though, as long as they don't look dangerous enough to stalk me, or shoot me.

[wamommy1]

I've been reading this thread and thought I should chime in. I believe the PHX metro area does have some scary drivers almost as bad as LA. I think I-10 West out of Phoenix is bad just as the 101 to and from Scottsdale is bad too.

I think that Scottsdale does have a rep of being the snob area. You will find that everywhere. The thing about Scottsdale is that alot of people have these as their vaction homes and not primary residences ( not all though).

I lived in Gilbert for 5 years (Seattle now) and really miss AZ. It does have its cons though too. I think if you're looking for a good place to live with a family it would be Scottsdale ( north of Shea) and Gilbert. That's my opinion. It all depends on where you work and commute times. I have friends that live in North Scottsdale ( and yes rich) they live by a few snobs. I have friends in Gilbert and there were snobs there too. Just research the particular neighborhood.

If you're looking to buy a house for under 400k I don't see you living amognst snobs. I could be wrong. I live in Seattle and there are plenty of snobs here. I will tell you that in certain parts of Scottsdale you will see it, but you can get that in Ocotillo now too!

Good luck with your move!

[aj661]

Originally Posted by sablebaby

I remember when these were posted before, it cause quite a reckus then.

I do honk at dumb people though, as long as they don't look dangerous enough to stalk me, or shoot me.

Yea, I hadn't seen it in years until a friend sent it to me a couple days ago. Sadly, a few items are true. I think drivers in the valley are terrible for a number of reasons. They come from everywhere, each bringing bad habits from different parts of the country. The grid pattern of the streets (thirty mile straightaways) and wide roads. When I was stationed in Arlington VA in the mid 70's, the streets were so narrow and crowded, it was hard to have anything more serious than a fender-bender.

Your approach is probably best, but I have a very low tolerance for unsafe drivers. I'd love to see the cameras on all of our highways. Speeding in and of itself can be dangerous enough, but it makes the collisions that much more deadly when combined with the other unsafe habits like tailgating, unsafe lane changes, red light violations, etc. I don't even think of speed in terms of miles per hour. For me it's feet per second. Approximately 1.4667 feet per second for every mile per hour. 75mph may not sound bad, but 110 feet per second does. That's why I get a little upset when I see a tailgater 20 feet off the bumper of a car doing 65 or 70. It's insane.

Personally, I'd like to see some German type enforcement here. It wouldn't be hard to install cameras to catch tailgaters along with the speed cameras. The average Highway Patrolman makes a minimum of 1000 traffic stops per year, many make twice that. Some people on this forum think there isn't enough enforcement. Perhaps, but if the penalties were as severe as some European countries, the current level would have an impact. I read others who complain that cops (especially Scottsdale) spend all their time with radar guns catching speeders to fill the gov't coffers instead of catching the burglars who are stealing everyone blind. Perhaps that's true too, but then again, burglars aren't killing 45,000+ people in this country every year.

I hate to say this, but to everyone who is so concerned with serial killers and gang-bangers and burglars, the biggest threat to your safety is staring back at you in the mirror. It's your neighbors. It's me. It's John Doe average citizen every time he gets behind the wheel.



Sooo, How 'bout them D-Backs this year??

[brittZ]

I laugh at people who say the valley is full of crime and burglary etc. . . It is a big city so yes there are crimes, robberies and what not. In 28 years we have never even bothered to lock our front door and we live in the northwest valley 43rd ave and bell where many people have said is crime infested. not one time has our house been broken into, invaded, trespassed on or any other property crime. In fact I dont think anyone living in my house even has a key to the front door. The only safetly precaution I take is to not flip people off on the freeway or drive like a jerk.

[brittZ]

In terms of driving - hell yes its like the road warriors out there. I agree with aj661 in that AZ is a magnet for people from all over with different rules and driving styles and there really isnt a "Phoenix driving pattern" its everyman for himself. The one addition I would add is that AZ is or at least was terrible on driver training and education. when I got my first license in '94 i had to read a little "rules of the road" manual and take 20 question multiple choice test which was followed by a road test which consisted of making 4 left hand turns on residential streets with absolutely no traffic and a 3-point turn. That license would have been good until I was into my mid 50's or 60's before it had to be renewed if I hadnt have moved out of state for a bit.

[osat]

Everyone criticized fast drivers, tailgaters, but nobody did even mentioned – slow drivers.
Just imagine, speed limit is 65mph, if you pass this limit up to 10 mph no speed ticket will be issued.
Now, you are driving on 101 north bound and on front of you “sit “ on the freeway, I am sorry to use this term, three darn hicks and block whole freeway at speed less then 65mph.
And this is better?
I am European and I do not suggest not even to wish German rules.
Did you know, by European rules, if anyone has to brake because of you, you are in traffic violation?
Yes, that is correct. And do not forget to turn on side sign when you are changing lanes, at list 10 sec BEFORE you are changing lane and not after.
Another one, do you know on Autobahn is no speed limit?

Is not so perfect idea to criticize the others, we need to ask our self how moral drivers we are.
I am not so good: I am driving fast, almost always 8mph above speed limit, sorry, bad habit, when somebody block me on LEFT lane, and ahead of him a mile no one, yes, I am sitting on his tail …

And on the end, the most drivers who you can meet on 101, would pay a lot penalty in Europe, but not because of speed, but other traffic violations are more deadly, like changing lines w/o no sign, cut off at high speed, to slow driving on left lane, using a cell phone when driving, etc.

If I hurt anyone I apologize. I just thought might be good to se other side also.
Have a nice evening

[brittZ]

I will agree with you osat. i am a seasoned AZ driver and now have 3 years driving experience in CA. People in AZ like to make fun of CA drivers, but here people on the freeway all tend to go the same speed for each lane with speed increase from right to left. People in the left lane typically cruise along at 80-85 and drive relatively close. No one randomly slams on the breaks and if someone is going to slow they will move to a slower lane. People also use their blinkers any time they change lanes or direction - even in parking lots and if you arent using a turn signal people assume you arent changing direction. But then again CA has what appears to be a pretty solid driver education program which AZ desperately lacks.

[aj661]

Originally Posted by osat

Everyone criticized fast drivers, tailgaters, but nobody did even mentioned – slow drivers.
Just imagine, speed limit is 65mph, if you pass this limit up to 10 mph no speed ticket will be issued.
Now, you are driving on 101 north bound and on front of you “sit “ on the freeway, I am sorry to use this term, three darn hicks and block whole freeway at speed less then 65mph.
And this is better?
I am European and I do not suggest not even to wish German rules.
Did you know, by European rules, if anyone has to brake because of you, you are in traffic violation?
Yes, that is correct. And do not forget to turn on side sign when you are changing lanes, at list 10 sec BEFORE you are changing lane and not after.
Another one, do you know on Autobahn is no speed limit?

Is not so perfect idea to criticize the others, we need to ask our self how moral drivers we are.
I am not so good: I am driving fast, almost always 8mph above speed limit, sorry, bad habit, when somebody block me on LEFT lane, and ahead of him a mile no one, yes, I am sitting on his tail …

And on the end, the most drivers who you can meet on 101, would pay a lot penalty in Europe, but not because of speed, but other traffic violations are more deadly, like changing lines w/o no sign, cut off at high speed, to slow driving on left lane, using a cell phone when driving, etc.

If I hurt anyone I apologize. I just thought might be good to se other side also.
Have a nice evening

Sorry I didn't mention every possible violation in addition to speed. Arizona has two statutes that apply to driving slow. Both can be hazardous, although most often only in that they induce frustration in other drivers, who then commit more severe traffic offenses which are truly dangerous. Also, I wouldn't have mentioned Germany if I wasn't somewhat familiar with their traffic laws.

With regard to speed, IF you are on the road alone and IF nothing darts in front of you causing you to swerve, then over-correct, then enter an unrecoverable critical speed yaw and IF you don't have a blowout with the same results and IF the car you are tailgating doesn't dynamite his brakes because a couch fell out of the truck in front of him, etc,etc,etc, then, sure; it IS safe to go fast. But IF anything goes wrong, it's a matter of simple physics. Like the joke goes, it isn't the fall off a ten story building that kills you - it's that sudden stop at the end. In other words, it isn't how fast you travel, it's how fast you stop - your change in velocity. The faster you go, the greater the change in velocity is likely to be. Every crash involves three collisions: When the vehicles reach maximum engagement, they stop but the occupants are still moving. After the occupants are stopped by seatbelts, airbags or dashboards, they stop but their internal organs are still moving. Finally, the internal organs stop after hitting the chest cavity wall. If that change in velocity is too great, the organs are damaged and you may die. I saw two people walk away from high speed crashes, only to die shortly thereafter because a ruptured aorta caused them to bleed out internally. Do you know why cars have airbags, crumple-zones and seatbelts? Because they slow the change in velocity, which increases your chance for survival - up to a point.

Stopping distances begin increase almost exponentially at higher speeds. Reaction times become hyper critical. The average perception-reaction time is between 1.50 to 1.75 seconds. I use the higher number because most drivers do not have a plan and allowing 0.25 seconds for that moment of "deer in the headlights" freeze-up, panic and disbelief is not unreasonable. At the 80-85 mph used by brittZ, you'll travel approximately 205 to 218 feet before perception becomes reaction. Question: If you have a blow-out (not just a flat) of your right rear tire at that speed, do you know what your car will do and can you safely bring it under control without over-correcting? If you can you are in a minority. Not many driving schools teach this outside a classroom. They may have written instructions and you can memorize them, but until you actually get on a track and practice over and over (at much lower speeds), chances are you'll get it wrong and you will lose control. As for tailgating, if the driver ahead does make a panic stop, practice all you want. You will rear end him. Is it unlikely he'll suddenly stand on the brakes? Maybe, but honestly, how times in your life would it have to happen to be considered a bad thing? And if he happens to be a little unstable and does it because you pushed him over the edge by riding his bumper, are you going to feel better knowing that it's illegal to brake unsafely?

Many years ago I attended an advanced collision investigation school put on by one of the best reconstructionists in the United States. He started the first day with a realistic sounding scenario of a child running onto a residential street in front of a car. Using formulas plugging in perception-reaction time, coefficient of friction, braking efficiencies etc., he demonstrated how an average driver traveling at 25 mph would stop in time to avoid hitting the child. Using the same data but with a speed of 30 mph, only 5 miles per hour over the posted speed limit, that same driver would not be able to stop until he was 11 feet past the point he struck the child. That day had a very profound effect on me. The scenario he used was realistic because he investigated the collision in which that child was run over. I drive 20-22 mph in residential areas and I don't care who I p*** off. If there are cars along both curbs, it's 15 mph. In my world, residential streets are potentially more dangerous than school zones. There aren't any crossing guards looking after the kids.

TRY to let the numbers sink in. Over 45,000 deaths every year. That's fifteen times the number killed on 9/11. Imagine everyone at a sold-out D-Backs game dying. Imagine it happening at a different stadium, every year. I know I've said this before but my God, that's almost as many people as were killed in the entire war in Viet Nam.

I apologize for giving a lecture and preaching, but not for making anyone uncomfortable. This is a subject I'm very passionate about. I lost a friend seven years ago when he was rear-ended and burned to death in his patrol car on US60. But the hardest thing for me that I had to do, and more times than I care to remember, was tell a family that a loved one was killed in a senseless, preventable collision. In 1986 I had to tell a man that everyone else in his family - his wife, sister and two adult daughters - were dead, crushed in their car by an 80,000 lb. tractor-trailer. I'll never get the look on that poor old man's face out of my mind. The list goes on and on and on. But this isn't about me. I chose that job and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

This is about the 30-35,000 people who are still waiting their turn to die in 2007.

Today is Good Friday and I promise anything I post for the rest of the day will be humorous or I'll stay away from the computer. (Schools out!!!!) Not to mention we are WAY off topic here. Just promise me you will drive safely, even if only for this weekend. Take care people.