Phoenix losing population for the first time in modern history... (Scottsdale: house, income tax)

[observer53]

Originally Posted by krock1dk

Evidently they must have forgotten that Phoenix has been beaten out 2 consecutives years to host a Super Bowl. Last year it was Indianapolis and this year it was New Orleans.

I don't think the Super Bowl decision has anything to do with what you are talking about. I didn't expect them to get the game again so soon. Indianapolis has never had it, I don't think (or at least not in recent history) and they gave it to New Orleans to help out that city's recovery from Katrina. Even before the decision was made, the talk was that that was going to happen, and why. The Super Bowl will be back here soon enough.

[JDish2000]

Originally Posted by krock1dk

True! Spoken like a tropper! But be careful. These native Arizonans will attack you for speaking the simple truth. Evidently they must have forgotten that Phoenix has been beaten out 2 consecutives years to host a Super Bowl. Last year it was Indianapolis and this year it was New Orleans. Natives of this state, for some reason, think everyone loves it here. Everyone's experience is different, but mine hasnt been so good. Arizona is bar none the WORST place I've ever lived. To me, Arizona is the illegal immigrant, foreclosure, auto theft, kidnapping and social assistance capital of America! Its like nobody here watches the news. Their probably doing smoke signals in their teepees.

I am a native...

I must say, if you do not enjoy, like, look forward to, desire, or cannot stand another minute in either PHX or AZ, why don't you just move on?

It is a simple question you should answer while looking into a mirror and conducting a self-talk...

[JDish2000]

Originally Posted by krock1dk

If Phoenix is going to still be a growing and vibrant metro area in the future, it will have to stop building itself into prosperity and start shedding the 'cheap' and 'sunny' and 'golf' labels that dont necessarily lure people like it used to. This isnt Florida. Warm weather and mountains just isnt enough any more. It must do much more in the long term to get JOBS.

According to USA Today, a few months ago, climate is no longer a major factor in relocations. You know what was? J-O-B-S. Americans no longer see the sunshine alone as being worth it. In this country, the states/metro areas that produce the most jobs are areas that produce goods i.e. manufacturing centers with more balanced economies: Houston-Galveston, the San Fran Bay Area, Los Angeles, Boston, Seattle, Washington DC-Baltimore, Philly, Chicago and even Detroit (like it or not), etc. Phoenix's service-based economy will only get it so far. If you dont believe me, just look at Vegas; its not even among the fasest growing MSAs anymore. The lawmakers of this state and leaders across the Valley better put their heads together and start thinking outside the box if they want to be competitive for the future.

The point is that Phoenix is going to have to do much more in the 'jobs' arena to attract people here in the future. Sunshine and mountains aint nearlly enough.

It is true PHX and the rest of AZ should always look for ways to diversify the economy here.

The fact remains that as a retirement and tourist destination, it will always "hone" the service industry.

Reality - the valley is a huge draw during the winter months; however, the summer slows things down, which makes the entire state a bargain for those willing to endure the heat of the summer.

Remember, a trip from PHX to the Grand Canyon for an out-of-town tourist is a money saving endeavor during our summer months...

I digress, we still need an economic engine that runs better over a 365 day period...

[observer53]

Originally Posted by JDish2000

It is true PHX and the rest of AZ should always look for ways to diversify the economy here.

The fact remains that as a retirement and tourist destination, it will always "hone" the service industry.

Reality - the valley is a huge draw during the winter months; however, the summer slows things down, which makes the entire state a bargain for those willing to endure the heat of the summer.

Remember, a trip from PHX to the Grand Canyon for an out-of-town tourist is a money saving endeavor during our summer months...

I digress, we still need an economic engine that runs better over a 365 day period...

We need to be much less dependent on straight sales taxes (and tourism related taxes, too, for that matter). Those sources of income change too rapidly when the local and national economy slow down.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

......
As for the core of the thread. We all know the story, it was on the news and in the papers here. It is pure bunk - speculation based on uncorrelated data - and it applies to the city of Phoenix not the metro area. One would expect Phoenix to decline eventually as do most inner cities overtaken by their burbs. But I don't think the time is now or soon. Phoenix still has a lot of open area in its fringes to develop and people will come as they always have for whatever the reason.

.....

I was going to say the same thing, just because they believe Phoenix's population has declined in numbers, that doesn't necessarily mean the population has also declined in the entire Phoenix metro area, which makes up most of Maricopa County.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Angel713

No.

Phoenix has been the cheap alternative to California for so many people. The reasons you listed as to why people move to Houston is not true either. Visit the place sometime. Hell, the reason Phoenix started growing in the first place (say around the 50s), was because of retirees. The industry then followed. Most other major American cities have industry first, and then the people follow.

I do agree that Phoenix and Houston are on different classes. I would rank Houston above Phoenix (economy, business, trade, etc.). Houston is actually ranked on world city charts.

Until Houston is shut down courtesy of a severe hurricane--------------no thank you.

As for Houston's summers: they are every bit as unpleasant as ours courtesy of the former's much higher humidity.

[jd433]

I am from Phoenix and now live in Houston. I can attest to the fact that Phoenix summers are definitely hotter and for longer than Houstons.
Yes it is very humid here but 96 or 97 degrees is about as hot as it gets here. In Phoenix you can get to 115+ and believe me that is way hotter humidity or not.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by jd433

I am from Phoenix and now live in Houston. I can attest to the fact that Phoenix summers are definitely hotter and for longer than Houstons.
Yes it is very humid here but 96 or 97 degrees is about as hot as it gets here. In Phoenix you can get to 115+ and believe me that is way hotter humidity or not.

When you factor in Houston's humidity with high heat, Houston's heat index often, if not most of the time surpasses Phoenix' temperature even if it is 106 degrees. It rarely reaches 115+ degrees in Phoenix. If it does it is short lived. The average number of days that Phoenix reaches over 110 degrees in a year is 10.

[krock1dk]

I am amazed at seeing a Phoenix-Houston 'rivalry' here. Perhaps cuz the city of Phoenix is the 5th largest in the country and the city of Houston is 4th? The honest truth is that Houston, as a larger city and MSA, is a world city and Phoenix is not. Lets face it, Houston is headquarters to the most Fortune 500 companies of any city outside NY, while Phoenix has just a small handfull--5 at most. Houston is a huge business center with a large manufacturing base to go along with it. Phoenix has next to no industry at all. Houston is a major medical center. Phoenix is not. Houston has NASA. Phoenix doesnt. Houston is a major shipping/transportation center. Phoenix is not. Houston ranks highly in energy production. Phoenix does not. As far as I'm concerned, Houston easily has the upper hand in almost every way. I mean come on, the largest employer in Arizona and the Pheonix area is Walmart, for crying out loud. Houston's economy is driven by 365-day economic activities and sectors, while Phoenix's are only for part of the year and tourist and leisure related. I've been to Houston only a few times and may not know it very well, but as far as my personal preferences go, Houston would be superior to me.

[krock1dk]

Originally Posted by JDish2000

I am a native...

I must say, if you do not enjoy, like, look forward to, desire, or cannot stand another minute in either PHX or AZ, why don't you just move on?

It is a simple question you should answer while looking into a mirror and conducting a self-talk...

Although I understand what you are saying, you also make a good point that I agree with. But I'm not in a position to relocate right now. I'm going to have to grin and bear it until I'm in a situation where I can move to Chicago.