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Old 02-13-2009, 08:55 AM
 
3 posts, read 10,645 times
Reputation: 11

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hi,
we are new to Scottsdale and have been planning a family, but without luck. So we plan to see RE now! After a lot of internet search we found few good reviews about "Arizona Reproductive Medicine Specialists" - but they have 4 doctors and we have no clue which one to see. Pls do let me know if anyone has heard/had any good/bad experience with any of the doctors below:
1. John H. Mattox, MD
2. Barbara M. Faber, MD
3. Drew V. Moffitt, MD
4. Mark D. Johnson, MD

thanks for help!!

 
Old 02-13-2009, 12:35 PM
 
178 posts, read 536,019 times
Reputation: 81
Pjoenix Magazine publishes an issue every year that lists the top rated docs in the Phoenix area. The ratings are given by other physicians. You might be able to find a back issue or archive on line. Best of luck.
 
Old 02-13-2009, 01:13 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,449,705 times
Reputation: 9920
I'm not a fan of the Phoenix Magazine Top Docs list because those ratings are not based on patient feedback. It's a popularity contest among doctors. I have received one of those surveys in the past. It just has several blank lines under each specialty and you are asked to fill in the names of doctors under each specialty. Unfortunately doctors tend to list their friends and colleagues on that list. The problem is that doctors are often really nice to one another but can act quite differently to patients so this list doesn't really give you a true idea of which doctors treat their patients well. I have also heard from colleagues that the survey isn't so random and it tends to favor doctors practicing in the city of Phoenix. Therefore, an excellent physician practicing in Suprise or Gilbert might not get enough votes from other doctors because there are not enough doctors practicing in their area who can list them.

I think a better survery is www.mdratings.com That's a survey done by actual patients. And believe me, if you are bad, you will get torn apart on there.

In regards to fertility, my advice is that whoever you see, make sure you find out which tests and labs are covered under your insurance if any. For example, you migh have some simple labs such as a CBC and thyroid (TSH, T4) done. However, if it's drawn for fertility reasons, you might have to pay out of pocket for them and they won't be covered under your insurance even though these are routine labs that would be covered at most OBGYN annual exams. So you might receive a bill for $600 for lab work that you didn't know about. These fertility specialists may not inform you of these costs in advance because they might assume you know you are required to pay for these tests because fertility studies are elective. Or they might deliberately avoid informing you of them upfront because they might think you will not elect to get those tests performed. So always ask on every procedure about how much it costs and what you will be required to pay. For example, a pelvic ultrasound can cost a $1000 out of pocket. Don't be afraid to tell your doctor that you can't afford certain tests because often times, the doctor can file your claim under different methods to get it paid for by the insurance company such as those routine labs that were mentioned.

Finally, look up their credentials on www.azmd.gov A fertility specialist is a reproductive endocrinologist. A true reproductive endocrinologist is an OBGYN doctor that underwent a reproductive fellowship. So on their training, it should list their OBGYN residency and then it should list another program for their reproductive fellowship. The reason I ask you to look this up is many regular OBGYN are calling themselves fertility specialists and have not done the fellowship. A fellowship is important because it is an additional two years of residency in just RE so their training and knowledge level is far superior to an OB who wants to tailor their practice to the more lucrative reproductive endocrinology.

Not to belabor the above point, but you should look up every doctor this way. There is a legal loophole for doctors in regards to how they entitle themselves. For example, there are a lot of family practice doctors trying to pose as dermatologists. They get away with it because they don't explicitly refer to themselves as dermatolgists. However, they will make no mention of their family practice background and just list "dermatology" next to their name which gives the false impression they are a dermatologist. They are legally allowed to do that. When you look up their training on www.azmd.gov, you will discover they never did a residency in dermatology and their training is in family medicine. I don't mean to pick on family medicine because this happens with a lot of different fields. You will see ENT, Family medicine and Pulmonary specialists calling themselves allergy specialists or General surgeons calling themselves Cosmetic Surgeons when they have no formal training in plastic and reconstructive surgery. It happens a lot so you have to protect yourself and see what their true training is.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 02-13-2009 at 01:33 PM..
 
Old 02-13-2009, 03:09 PM
 
3 posts, read 10,645 times
Reputation: 11
thanks for the replies!

azriverfan: thanks for your detailed reply, u have explained everything so well.... it has made our search lot more easier :-) Thanks again!
 
Old 02-13-2009, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Northern Arizona
1,248 posts, read 3,085,133 times
Reputation: 629
FWIW, I tend to stay away from Phoenix Magazine in general. I like Jana Boombersbach's (sp?) columns, but cover to cover, the magazine is about 20% articles and 80% advertisements.
 
Old 02-14-2009, 10:10 AM
 
3,764 posts, read 3,504,256 times
Reputation: 8938
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Not to belabor the above point, but you should look up every doctor this way. There is a legal loophole for doctors in regards to how they entitle themselves. For example, there are a lot of family practice doctors trying to pose as dermatologists. They get away with it because they don't explicitly refer to themselves as dermatolgists. However, they will make no mention of their family practice background and just list "dermatology" next to their name which gives the false impression they are a dermatologist. They are legally allowed to do that. When you look up their training on www.azmd.gov, you will discover they never did a residency in dermatology and their training is in family medicine. I don't mean to pick on family medicine because this happens with a lot of different fields. You will see ENT, Family medicine and Pulmonary specialists calling themselves allergy specialists or General surgeons calling themselves Cosmetic Surgeons when they have no formal training in plastic and reconstructive surgery. It happens a lot so you have to protect yourself and see what their true training is.
So this happens a lot? How about posting some links to back that statement up?

Physicians don't routinely claim to be something they're not. Why should they? And more importantly, how can they? Their training is all a matter of public record. Their colleagues will all know they're lying. It's not like you can just write away for a board certification in dermatology and pin it up on your wall. I mean, someone can, but that person would lose their license to practice the minute they got caught.
 
Old 02-14-2009, 12:41 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,449,705 times
Reputation: 9920
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
So this happens a lot? How about posting some links to back that statement up?
I don't want to list several doctors because this could be interpreted as unprofessional but just to show you I'm not making this up, I will list two examples.

Dr. Stuart Agren practices allergy. He is trained in family medicine

FAMILY ALLERGY CLINIC (http://www.familyallergyclinic.com/officeinfo/officeinfo.htm - broken link)

If you go to his azmd.gov website, he only has training in family medicine.

Alliance Dermatology

He has a fellowship listed but it's not an accredited or recognized fellowship according to www.freida.com nor the American College of Dermatology. Furthermore, family medicine doctors do not qualify to apply for dermatology fellowships so it's a moot point anyway. Adult Dermatology is either a residency in which you enter it directly after medical school or it is a fellowship that can be attained only after one completes 3 years of internal medicine residency or 4 years of Med-Peds residency. His fellowship is not listed on FREIDA. There is also a pediatrics dermatology fellowship that is open only to people completing a 3 year residency in pediatrics or a 4 yr Med-Peds residency. In regards to Allergy/Immunology, it's only a fellowship and only people who complete a 3 year residency in Internal Medicine, Pediatrics or Medicine-Pediatrics combined(4 yr residency) are qualified to apply.

In regards to Dr. Agren and Dr. Jazayeri, I have not seen any of them personally so I don't want to comment regarding their care or service. I'm sure they have many patients who are very happy and pleased with their services. I'm not commenting about their quality of care or making any specific comments in regards to how they practice. I'm just stating they are not board certified in Allergy or Dermatology and they didn't complete accredited fellowships in either field.

Quote:
Physicians don't routinely claim to be something they're not.
I never said it was routine. And the term "routine" is subjective anyway. I'm not going to argue semantics with you. I have seen enough physicians practicing this way that it is in the best interests of patients to research their credentials on www.azmd.gov. A patient loses nothing by doing that.

Quote:
Why should they?
MONEY$$$$ The reason they do so is because certain fields are more lucrative such as dermatology and allergy. Primary care physicians are trained in basic dermatology for example. Even giving allergy shots and doing testing can be learned. Therefore, if they hang a shingle saying dermatology or allergy next to their name, they are aware the general public won't know the difference and will assume they are a dermatologist or an allergist. Thus they can essentially practice as a dermatologist or an allergist and tailor their practice to that field and make more money. And the difference in income can be significant as in $300 K more significant! A general surgeon who does a weekend course in breast implants can tailor his or her practice to just doing breasts for example which is far more lucrative than doing appendectomies for example which is often reimbursed poorly whereas elective procedures such as breast implants pays cash. The general surgeon can say "cosmetic surgery" which is different from "plastic and reconstructive surgery" so they are not breaking any laws by saying they are cosmetic surgeons, again, the implication is the public won't know the difference between a cosmetic and plastic surgeon and assume they are the same thing.

Quote:
And more importantly, how can they? Their training is all a matter of public record.
Because they are not claiming they are board certified in a certain field nor do they refer to themselves as dermatologists or allergists for example. They only state they practice the field of dermatology and allergy and tailor their practice toward those fields. In addition, most people don't look up their training nor do they really understand what a fellowship means. How many people look up their doctors on www.azmd.gov?

Quote:
Their colleagues will all know they're lying.
And? So? Do you think we are not aware of doctors who do this? I know someone down the street who is doing this and yet I can't do anything about it, because they have broken no laws. It's well known among physicians that some physicians do this. We don't worry about them and do the best we can to serve our patients. As mentioned previously, it's a legal loophole that they can exploit. This is why I'm teaching the public to learn how to check www.azmd.gov and read their credentials for themselves. In addition, you can go to the College that awards board certification in that particular field and see if their name is listed there.

Quote:
It's not like you can just write away for a board certification in dermatology and pin it up on your wall.
But that's not what they are doing. They not saying they are board certified in dermtology. They are just writing dermatology or allergy. Allergy and Dermatology are within the scope of a primarcy care physician's practice so they are not doing anything illegal; they just can't explicity say they are specialists or board certified.

Quote:
I mean, someone can, but that person would lose their license to practice the minute they got caught.
No, they wouldn't lose their license if they are not claiming they are board certified or referring to themselves as specialists. As mentioned above, dermatology is within the scope of a family practice physician's field. Again, I understand your skepticism but there is a lot the general public and individuals like yourself are unaware and assume which is why these physicians are getting away this. You assume anyone who says dermatology next to his name is a dermatologist because you assume some authority would prevent them from doing this.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 02-14-2009 at 01:56 PM..
 
Old 02-14-2009, 01:11 PM
Status: "Be yourself. What's the alternative?" (set 20 days ago)
 
8,696 posts, read 10,845,026 times
Reputation: 12754
I found my dentist through Phoenix Magazine's top dentists and she' s very, very good. I didn't just take the word of a magazine, but it got me to her and then I figured out the rest.
 
Old 03-12-2009, 11:35 AM
 
4 posts, read 7,996 times
Reputation: 10
Like sapos, I am also looking for an experienced RE specialist with a high-success rate. Dr. Nathaniel Zoneraich received the most positive reviews when I did an online search. I looked at the doc list from Phoenix magazine, but none of the docs had as many good (online) reviews as Dr. Zoneraich did. I visited his clinic recently for consultation and he seemed nice and organized. He laid out his treatment plan for me which would begin with some imaging tests and bloodwork. I'm new to this RE thing. If anyone has any experience with a fertility doctor, I would appreciate your feedbacks.

azriverfan, thanks for web tips. I become more cautious selecting a doctor. I do believe the doctors' ratings on the magazine may be biased. It's pretty natural when one doc nominates his colleague whom he/she knows. However... When I did a background check on my RE at Arizona Medical Board - Protecting the Public's Health, the website missed his fellowship in RE as stated at his clinic's website. Can Arizona Medical Board - Protecting the Public's Health be incomplete/inaccurate? For some reasons, I could not get doctors' ratings from the website you recommended mdratings.com. Again, thank you for sharing your findings.
 
Old 03-12-2009, 06:13 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,449,705 times
Reputation: 9920
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4r13l View Post
Like sapos, I am also looking for an experienced RE specialist with a high-success rate. Dr. Nathaniel Zoneraich received the most positive reviews when I did an online search. I looked at the doc list from Phoenix magazine, but none of the docs had as many good (online) reviews as Dr. Zoneraich did. I visited his clinic recently for consultation and he seemed nice and organized. He laid out his treatment plan for me which would begin with some imaging tests and bloodwork. I'm new to this RE thing. If anyone has any experience with a fertility doctor, I would appreciate your feedbacks.

azriverfan, thanks for web tips. I become more cautious selecting a doctor. I do believe the doctors' ratings on the magazine may be biased. It's pretty natural when one doc nominates his colleague whom he/she knows. However... When I did a background check on my RE at Arizona Medical Board - Protecting the Public's Health, the website missed his fellowship in RE as stated at his clinic's website. Can Arizona Medical Board - Protecting the Public's Health be incomplete/inaccurate? For some reasons, I could not get doctors' ratings from the website you recommended mdratings.com. Again, thank you for sharing your findings.
Dr. Zoneraich's fellowship is listed on there. I just checked. The fellowship doesn't specifically state that it was done in Reproductive Endocrinology and Inferitlity but it does have the years it was completed and it lists Emory University. He is legit. I'm excited for you. Let us know what you think or you can just PM me, I'm interested to know personally because I want to refer patients to good people.

Another piece of advice to everyone, be careful about the fellowships that are listed on that website. Some of them are not accredited or recognized. The physician lists his or her credentials on the www.azmd.gov. Usually, they won't lie about fellowship training which is I would still trust that site. However, some physicians will list unaccredited training and call it a fellowship. For example, there are these cosmetic "fellowships" that general surgeons can pay and train in. They are not official or accredited fellowships. They tend to be mentorships in which a plastic surgeon will charge a physician some money to allow them to train with them for a year in their private practice clinic. This is not the same as an accredited fellowship in which physicians apply for it and submit grades, board scores, research experience and letters of recommendation to compete for a fellowship spot. Many of these accredited fellowships are brutally competitive and programs will receive hundreds of applications for one spot. This why these unaccredited fellowships were created in the first place, because there are so few fellowship spots in the most lucrative and in-demand fields such as Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, Dermatology, Allergy and even Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility.

The way to verify if a fellowship is official is go to the link below. If a fellowship is not listed on that website, it means that it's not recognized or that it no longer exists and was shut down. However, it is extremely and I mean extremely rare that a fellowship program was shut down. These are just the allopathic (M.D.) fellowships. D.O.'s can train in these fellowships as well but they also have their own fellowships listed with their own organization, the AOA that only Osteopaths (D.O.'s) are allowed to train in. I don't have that link. So if the doctor is an M.D. (either U.S or foreign trained) and they have a fellowship listed on their website or state profile and you can't find it in the FREIDA link below, I would be highly suspicious.

https://freida.ama-assn.org/Freida/u...ogramSearch.do

Last edited by azriverfan.; 03-12-2009 at 06:31 PM..
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