The City with the second most kidnappings in the world Phoenix? (Maricopa: houses, employment)

[ABQSunseeker]

Let me preface this by saying I've lived in the Phoenix metro area and visit it often. And I've always liked the city and care about it.

Obviously it has some problems, and this one has gotten national attention and is disheartening. I've read the reports and seen the ABC Nightline special.

What's amazing to me are the head-in-the-sand-ostrich types in these threads who simply want to minimize or ignore the news. And who want to continue to be boosters.

The fact that Phoenix is the number 1 kidnapping capital of the country and the 2nd in the world after Mexico City DOES impact each and every person in Phoenix. It means a ton of money and resources, and lots of men who have to fight the problem. And it is getting national attention which sullies the reputation of the city and can legitimately influence businesses not to relocate to the city.

Isn't that obvious? First you acknowledge a problem, then you take steps to deal with it. No one is attacking Phoenix here for the sake of attacking. It is very much a question of the quality of life and future of the city.

[Ponderosa]

No one here would even know there is a "kidnapping problem" if there weren't reports of it in the press. The human smuggling trade is far removed from the average person's life. And anyway, it is YOUR problem USA not Arizona's to solve. The border is the national border and the responsibility that is being dodged is that of the US government. So deal with it and don't be giving us **** for a situation that developed because your politicians lack the will and your businesses want cheap labor. I, for one, am sick of the southwestern states having to foot the bill, economically and socially, for a failed immigration policy.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by SoonerGirl67

oak999 you are awesome! I have been trying to make the move from Oklahoma out to Phoenix but, like you, I just heard about this situation and am now having serious second thoughts. Having lived in Oklahoma basically my whole life, I always dreamed of living in the west, Arizona in particular. It is so sad that such a beautiful place is being allowed to be desecrated by crime. I wonder if it will get better now that Napalitano is gone from the state or if it will get worse because now she's in charge of the entire U.S. border (yikes!). I would like to hear more on this issue from people who live there, such as what it's really like and if people are actually leaving the area for someplace safer.

Stay where you're at.

[ABQSunseeker]

Ponderosa, the problem can't just be disowned like that. The average Phoenician who doesn't even notice the human smuggling trade, will be affected when local budgets are busted, services decline, and taxes are raised. And if there are plenty of avaricious businessmen who want to hire illegals in Phoenix, then that part is just as much Phoenix's responsibility to deal with. The border has always been porous, but there were far fewer illegals in the past. It seems the climate of quick gain and greed has become pervasive in Phoenix and lots of other cities as well (ha, even our politicians are notorious for hiring illegals and not paying taxes).

That being said, all the Southwest is going to be heavily impacted by the Mexican drug wars going on---it's not going to be any picnic.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by ABQSunseeker

Ponderosa, the problem can't just be disowned like that. The average Phoenician who doesn't even notice the human smuggling trade, will be affected when local budgets are busted, services decline, and taxes are raised. And if there are plenty of avaricious businessmen who want to hire illegals in Phoenix, then that part is just as much Phoenix's responsibility to deal with. The border has always been porous, but there were far fewer illegals in the past. It seems the climate of quick gain and greed has become pervasive in Phoenix and lots of other cities as well (ha, even our politicians are notorious for hiring illegals and not paying taxes).

That being said, all the Southwest is going to be heavily impacted by the Mexican drug wars going on---it's not going to be any picnic.

Like I said, it is a US problem. Most illegals are just passing through. They go into the entire US and Phoenix is no more greedy than anywhere else for cheap labor. But, like I said, you exaggerate the problem far beyond reality. If it gets dangerous enough for them to come here, maybe they will think twice before risking their lives to clean our toilets for minimum wage. As far as AZ goes, it has probably the toughest unenforced laws on the books regarding employment of illegals. What is your state doing but acting as one grand sanctuary for them?

[ABQSunseeker]

This is not a contest of which is worse, Arizona or New Mexico. New Mexico has in fact a far lower percentage of illegals than most states including Arizona. But this can change as things are heating up.

The problem I see so strongly here is a matter of perception. Crime goes up, but so many people want to deny what is happening in front of them. People in the safety of their gated enclaves or "safe" suburbs simply don't acknowledge what is happening. Obviously I see from this thread, that this attitude is common in Phoenix, and it is not uncommon in Albuquerque either.

Again, if you don't acknowledge the problem it will eventually come and impact you whether you want to deal with it or not.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by ABQSunseeker

This is not a contest of which is worse, Arizona or New Mexico. New Mexico has in fact a far lower percentage of illegals than most states including Arizona. But this can change as things are heating up.

The problem I see so strongly here is a matter of perception. Crime goes up, but so many people want to deny what is happening in front of them. People in the safety of their gated enclaves or "safe" suburbs simply don't acknowledge what is happening. Obviously I see from this thread, that this attitude is common in Phoenix, and it is not uncommon in Albuquerque either.

Again, if you don't acknowledge the problem it will eventually come and impact you whether you want to deal with it or not.

Instead of puffing up with your feigned self-righteous indignation, maybe you could suggest a plan to deal with illegals that Arizona could implement? Your only purpose here is to be critical. That's easy. We don't have the legal authority or the financial wherewithal to deal with the drug and illegal trade. It is demand driven and no one is doing anything to dampen demand.

As for your silly remarks about gated communities, what do you know? As I said, unless we too had seen it on the news, we would not have known about the kidnapping stuff. You see now and then that some headless Jose is found in the river bottom. It is a world far from our lives at least for now. It is not a matter of acknowledging, it is a matter of recognition.

And the last I saw, Phoenix at three times the size still had a significantly lower violent crime rate than Albuquerque. I am so "disheartened". Maybe you should clean your own house first.

[ABQSunseeker]

Wrong about Albuquerque and crime rates compared to Phoenix. Do your research. And learn to open your eyes rather than being another booster. People here are entitled to a balanced view of a place.
Your snide remarks and nasty temper hardly speak well of you.

[Ponderosa]

I am correct about the crime statistics. It can be verified by a minimum of research on your part. ABQ rate is about 30%!!! higher than Phoenix according to FBI numbers. Open your eyes. What is the state bird there, the Ostrich?

People indeed need a balanced view and that is why they should ignore posters like you who do not live in the area and do not know what they are writing about and whose sole motivation is to disparage another city and its residents for God knows what reason. I don't know what it is, but this out of state intrusion for the purpose of criticizing us is like a plague on this forum. We got DCTalk over on one thread and you over here today. The Houston twins come in from time to time to troll. As someone said, this is about the third thread on this topic one of you has started. You spoil the whole experience.

Ah, I'm tired of you now. So you can have the last word.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Instead of puffing up with your feigned self-righteous indignation, maybe you could suggest a plan to deal with illegals that Arizona could implement?

The problem is that this is not a state issue, irrespective of the fact that illegal immigration problems and the problems they cause are primarily experienced by CA, AZ, NM, TX and FL.

The real problem is that immigration and borders are the responsibility of the federal government, and they are asleep on the job.

This is rightly an issue where we affected states should petition the federal government to do something. It's nothing that AZ can implement. It needs to be implemented by US.

Just where is our federal government? Selling out?