Latest South Mountain Freeway proposal (Loop 202 final leg) (Phoenix, Tucson: homes, employment)

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by miamiman

I guess you missed the part of the story where it said a parkway would be significantly cheaper than a freeway. Why wouldn't MAG be attracted to the cheaper proposal? We are going through a recession.

Ahwatukee residents are the people who are going have to put up with people whizzing by every minute, so if they want a parkway, that's what they should get.

Let's get one thing straight. Ahwatukee residents prefer the freeway not this parkway. Yes, the ones whose houses are going to be obliterated are opposed to this but the vast majority of of residents prefer the freeway as that would lure commerce and make west Ahwatukee similar to Chandler and Gilbert in that they are communities that also have industry. As of now, the Ahwautukee foothills is just a housing community in a valley that ends abruptly into a dead end. They have to head east for jobs and entertainment. In addition, this freeway would open the south west valley thus leading to a number of business opportunities for home builders, companies, and entertainment. And of course, it would relieve traffic and congestion. It would also connect the west valley to the south valley (Ahwautukee, Chandler, South Tempe). The cost of building the freeway would be minimal compared to the economic development it would create. It's unfortunate that everyone can't recognize this and only examines the current dollar amount and fails to account for the future; that's what unprogressive towns and cities do.

[azdr0710]

the Squaw Peak Freeway (AZ 51) was originally designated a "parkway" when built.....as one here said, there was even a stop light on it at Thomas to, evidently, keep the traffic slowed down....

can those of you who weren't here then imagine having to stop at a Thomas red light while traveling up or down the Squaw Peak??!!!

colossal traffic backups ensued at Thomas and the mistake was quickly rectified....

today, on the 51, the "parkway" designation no longer exists, the speed limit was raised, carpool lanes were added and the old landscaped median (parkway-style) is gone....it's a regular freeway now.....

seems the same mistake is being considered again with this new proposed "parkway"....no way will traffic drive 45 mph

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by azdr0710

the Squaw Peak Freeway (AZ 51) was originally designated a "parkway" when built.....as one here said, there was even a stop light on it at Thomas to, evidently, keep the traffic slowed down....

I remember that, and what a ridiculous conception it turned out to be. There again, the "parkway" design for the 51 was done partly to appease the NIMBYs who were vocally opposed to a high speed freeway cutting through their neighborhood. I believe it was the City of Phoenix (not ADOT) that built the parkway, and it was called the "18th Street Parkway" in its original phase, which was sometime in the mid '80s. Well, the parkway concept didn't go over too well. The speed limit was 45 in some spots, and 50 in others. People were easily driving 60 MPH or more, so it was finally turned into a full fledged freeway in the early '90s.

If MAG and ADOT agree to go along with the "Arizona Parkway" (the most idiotic name for a road in my opinion), they will be shooting themselves in the foot because it will likely be the same scenario as what happened with the Squaw Peak Parkway. A few years after completion, they'll realize that a divided street with a 45 MPH speed limit won't be any kind of traffic reliever ... then, they'll have to spend more taxpayer money for upgrades. This freeway could have been long established by now if ADOT had simply managed the original funds correctly, and had ignored the whining & bickering of the pathetic NIMBYs.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Let's get one thing straight. Ahwatukee residents prefer the freeway not this parkway. Yes, the ones whose houses are going to be obliterated are opposed to this but the vast majority of of residents prefer the freeway as that would lure commerce and make west Ahwatukee similar to Chandler and Gilbert in that they are communities that also have industry. As of now, the Ahwautukee foothills is just a housing community in a valley that ends abruptly into a dead end. They have to head east for jobs and entertainment. In addition, this freeway would open the south west valley thus leading to a number of business opportunities for home builders, companies, and entertainment. And of course, it would relieve traffic and congestion. It would also connect the west valley to the south valley (Ahwautukee, Chandler, South Tempe). The cost of building the freeway would be minimal compared to the economic development it would create. It's unfortunate that everyone can't recognize this and only examines the current dollar amount and fails to account for the future; that's what unprogressive towns and cities do.

Have you polled everyone in Ahwatukee? Doubtful.

You still fail to take cost into account. ADOT couldn't really care less right now about the economic development from a new freeway. They will still need to shell out the money to get the road down. I am definitely not anti-freeway, but I realize that there are financial restraints that make a parkway more attractive. In this economy, we are lucky that there are talks of anything being constructed.

[wit-nit]

In case anyone doesn't remember, the Federal CANAMEX truck highway is planned for utilizing the proposed South Mountain Freeway through Ahwatukee. The Federal Government's plans trump the State and County's plans if so desired and they will dictate how the freeway is to be built for the large trucks driving through the area.
Here is one of many sites regarding the proposed CANAMEX Hwy which runs from the Mexican border up to Canada.
Proposed South Mountain Freeway an Environmental Disaster

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by nitram

In case anyone doesn't remember, the Federal CANAMEX truck highway is planned for utilizing the proposed South Mountain Freeway through Ahwatukee. The Federal Government's plans trump the State and County's plans if so desired and they will dictate how the freeway is to be built for the large trucks driving through the area.
Here is one of many sites regarding the proposed CANAMEX Hwy which runs from the Mexican border up to Canada.
Proposed South Mountain Freeway an Environmental Disaster

This environmentalist organization is against the freeway and is finding any reasons for why it shouldn't be built.

Firstly, if this organization is worried that the air monitor at 43rd Avenue will be negatively affected by the freeway, maybe they should move the air monitor?

Secondly, I thought Congress just outlawed Mexican trucks traveling through our country?

Thirdly, the organization talks about blasting South Mountain (false), threatening endangered species in a dry river, and Civil Rights issues in a relatively sparsely populated area.

Ridiculous propoganda. I would expect something like this in Tucson, not Phoenix.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

....

All right, here's why I'm ticked off: this freeway has been in the plans for well over TWENTY YEARS! If people in this area are opposed to the route because it would result in demolished homes, why were these homes allowed to be built along this corridor in the first place ... and why were the residents stupid enough to BUY houses along a future freeway route?! Did they not bother to read the plans before hand???

....

Amazing... I am wondering about that too, and if the residents were told of the freeway plans before they purchased their homes.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by miamiman

Have you polled everyone in Ahwatukee? Doubtful.

Your quote reminds me of Chpnjaz's retort regarding America's opinion of the AIG bonuses. No, I didn't poll America in regards to that either but some things are just understood. Do you live in Ahwatukee? I've lived in the area for nearly 10 years and this freeway has been something the community has discussed and looked forward to for a long time. If you want to be argumentative by trying to discount that by accusing me of not polling the entire community so be it. Nonetheless, anyone who lives in that area understands the community's desire for this freeway for some time now.

You still fail to take cost into account. ADOT couldn't really care less right now about the economic development from a new freeway. They will still need to shell out the money to get the road down. I am definitely not anti-freeway, but I realize that there are financial restraints that make a parkway more attractive. In this economy, we are lucky that there are talks of anything being constructed.

No, none of us have failed to take cost into account. No one is suggesting it has to be built this year. The uproar pertains to switching the freeway project with an impractical "parkway" I'm aware ADOT couldn't care less about economic development and that's the problem. It's this lack of foresight that often keeps this city in the dark ages at times. There are so many examples of this type of sheer stupidity that it is frustrating. In short, this freeway should have been built a long time ago

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

No, none of us have failed to take cost into account. No one is suggesting it has to be built this year. The uproar pertains to switching the freeway project with an impractical "parkway" I'm aware ADOT couldn't care less about economic development and that's the problem. It's this lack of foresight that often keeps this city in the dark ages at times. There are so many examples of this type of sheer stupidity that it is frustrating. In short, this freeway should have been built a long time ago

What's really irritating is the cost of building the freeway wouldn't even be an issue right now if it was allowed to be constructed in the '80s or '90s as originally planned. The vocal opponents are partly to blame, but ADOT & MAG also share part of the blame. Remember, the 1985 plan that was approved by voters was for 231 miles of freeways in the metro area. In the early '90s, ADOT claimed that they had no money to finish the projects ... and an audit later revealed the allocated funds were grossly mis managed.

So while the NIMBYs keep protesting, and ADOT & MAG keep trying to find ways of appeasing them & scaling back the original plans, the cost of road construction keeps increasing. All the bickering, stalling, and squandering has resulted in a huge waste of time and taxpayer money. No wonder costs are out of control! If things were done when originally promised, the price tag would have been substantially less.

[wit-nit]

quote miamiman: Secondly, I thought Congress just outlawed Mexican trucks traveling through our country? quote

Yes congress did temporarily, but Mexican trucks are not the only ones to use the CANAMEX highway. Even if the Mexican trucks were banned permanantly the American trucks pick up the produce and other goods transfered from them and will travel the highway to where ever their destination is to the north.

And yes Mike, the residents were told of the proposed freeway many years ago. The has been, in the past, a lot of publicity over this. But I imagine many realtors, developers etal told prospective buyers that the freeway is a moot situation. And if they call it a Parkway, like others mentioned about the Squaw Peak Parkway, once it's in place it will be expanded later as needed since the government agencies own the right of way and will at taxpayers expense tear it up and expand on it regardless of residents opinions. That's how the government works.