HOA shuts down a preschool (appointed, buy, college)

[lchoro]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

Interesting points, but sort of sounds like those postings about the gay piano bangers. Let someone teach little children out of their home and the next thing you know, you have dens of iniquity springing up all over!

The fact is, this is a well behaved group of kids with well educated parents (mostly professors who came here after ASU West unwisely closed its excellent preschool). They use no public/common areas; they are either in the designated room or the back yard. There are usually 3 adults--the owner plus two student-teachers from ASU-West. Insurance, licenses, inspections, sanitary practices, careful monitoring of the children are all in order. A more harmless, benevolent activity in one's home can hardly be imagined.

The issue is simply that a neighbor uses the HOA to torpedo this person's livelihood and does not have the courage and decency to simply walk over and tell her their objections, so that they can be remedied on a private basis. And the HOA simply rolls over and orders her to obey, with no recourse.

This is, to me, an abuse of power; the HOA should not get involved in every possible complaint between neighbors. If someone is doing something egregious such as keeping people awake after midnight, overhauling an engine in the front yard, dumping trash in the street, letting their house turn into an eyesore that scares away respectable people--yes, these seem like good reasons to have an HOA with teeth. But this teacher does none of those things. Currently she's looking for another house in a more accommodating neighborhood--after all, it's a good time to buy--it's not worth it to her to stay and fight. I would, but that's me.

Hence... I hope she rents her house out to a large family with 3 SUVs and 5 obnoxious teenagers who really make this neighbor's life miserable. Preferably illegals. Preferably with guns and some drug dealing going on, and this neighbor will be too terrified to confront them even from behind the HOA. He's too cowardly to go talk to a 5'2" 100 lb school teacher, after all.

You have excessive occupancy with 3 adults and 12-20 kids in one house and one yard. A fenced yard is required of day care providers. It doesn't matter how many adults you have. Some of the kids will get away and perhaps run off into the street, thereby causing a hazard and liability issues for the cluster. It's not just the tot lot and the traffic. What if the kid runs out and gets bit by a neighbor's dog in one of the nearby yards?

[Foreverking]

I be pissed if someone parked even 1 tire in my driveway. Its Mine, and I paid for it. If I get my space taken up, then the daycare worker owes me a cut of the money. I see NO reason that I should pay HOAs, Mortgage, Insurance and upkeep on my property just to have some daycare impede on my happy quiet existence.

I say kick the wench out, good for you HOA

[observer53]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

. . .
The issue is simply that a neighbor uses the HOA to torpedo this person's livelihood and does not have the courage and decency to simply walk over and tell her their objections, so that they can be remedied on a private basis. And the HOA simply rolls over and orders her to obey, with no recourse. . . .

This is, to me, an abuse of power; the HOA should not get involved in every possible complaint between neighbors. Currently she's looking for another house in a more accommodating neighborhood--after all, it's a good time to buy--it's not worth it to her to stay and fight. I would, but that's me.

If she violated the CC and R's, that's the end of the inquiry. There's no way to just resolve this with the complaining neighbor. As was said before, if one person violates the CC and Rs, no matter how benign the violation may seem to you or the violator, then everyone else feels they can, and the next violations may not be so benign. You try to make it sound like the preschool owner is totally blameless in this situation, but she is NOT.

I hope she READS the CC and Rs for her new neighborhood BEFORE she signs on the dotted line.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

The fact is, this is a well behaved group of kids with well educated parents (mostly professors who came here after ASU West unwisely closed its excellent preschool). They use no public/common areas; they are either in the designated room or the back yard.

There are usually 3 adults--the owner plus two student-teachers from ASU-West. Insurance, licenses, inspections, sanitary practices, careful monitoring of the children are all in order. A more harmless, benevolent activity in one's home can hardly be imagined.

The issue is simply that a neighbor uses the HOA to torpedo this person's livelihood...

The issues is that the homeowner is violating the CC&R's that they agreed to when they purchased the house. The CC&R's obviously state that no business can be operated out of the house.

It has nothing to do with interferring with someones right to a livelyhood.

HOA's have gone along with not preventing home operated businesses that don't generate additional traffic.

Assuming that two of the three adults live in the house, then the third adult and the 2 student-teachers make 3 additional cars parked on the street, creating "additional traffic". Plus all the cars that come and go dropping off and picking up the children.

The homeowner has the right to a livelyhood, and to run a day care center. But they do not have the right to run a day care center in their home in that HOA.

There is no way that it can be justified. The rules were made for everyone.

If they feel that the HOA is being unreasonale, then they have the right to sue the HOA. They may win, but will probably lose and have to pay the HOA's attorney fees.

[Bummer]

Absolutely, Captain Bill . . .

As I posted earlier, a Day Care today, a Piano School tomorrow and what's next . . . A TACO STAND in the front yard?

[arctichomesteader]

Sheesh. People would be a lot happier if they didn't worry about what others do.

[blisterpeanuts]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

The issues is that the homeowner is violating the CC&R's that they agreed to when they purchased the house. The CC&R's obviously state that no business can be operated out of the house.

It has nothing to do with interferring with someones right to a livelyhood.

HOA's have gone along with not preventing home operated businesses that don't generate additional traffic.

Assuming that two of the three adults live in the house, then the third adult and the 2 student-teachers make 3 additional cars parked on the street, creating "additional traffic". Plus all the cars that come and go dropping off and picking up the children.

The homeowner has the right to a livelyhood, and to run a day care center. But they do not have the right to run a day care center in their home in that HOA.

There is no way that it can be justified. The rules were made for everyone.

If they feel that the HOA is being unreasonale, then they have the right to sue the HOA. They may win, but will probably lose and have to pay the HOA's attorney fees.

Captain, what you are saying is correct in terms of the letter of the law, but what a lousy way to live.

Just think if every time you did some little thing that violated some rule of your HOA, your neighbor ran to them and filed a complaint? For example, you leave a load of firewood on the driveway for 3 days because you are unable to haul it in until you can hire someone. Neighbor calls HOA, HOA fines you for every day it's there. Boy you are really going to love your neighbor after that, aren't you.

When I used to volunteer at a multiple sclerosis outpatient clinic, I once spoke to a lady from Montreal with MS who was unable to retrieve her trash barrel from the sidewalk in icy conditions within 12 hours. She was able to retrieve it when a relative came over the next day. The nasty elderly couple next door called the police to complain about the ordinance violation. The policeman was very apologetic when he saw that she could barely even walk, but he had to fill out a report nonetheless.

So the preschool is an ongoing daily violation and perhaps you're right that it should be shut down. By the way, it's one adult and two older children who occupy the house in question, not the crowd you describe. Yet, if the neighbor wasn't a busybody he probably wouldn't even know it was there.

I will admit, a couple of people have parked jutting into their driveway and that's unacceptable--I would hate that too--so why can't the neighbor simply have asked the teacher to stop that practice or else the HOA will have to get involved. That way, the neighbor gets what he wants, the teacher gets what she wants, and no one is angry.

But the way the neighbor did it, he's earned the undying hatred of several people. Bad karma. So, like I say, she needs to rent the house to illegals, with 7 kids who scream a lot, who cook very smelly food.

I used to rent an apartment in a two-family in Massachusetts, with a shared garage and driveway. I was there for 8 years (should have bought a house, but that's water under the bridge) and saw several upstairs neighbors come and go. One couple was particularly inconsiderate and would often park their huge SUV's so that it was difficult for me to get into my garage space. One time a friend of theirs actually parked in my garage. It got to where I would just park behind them if I couldn't get in. One time I came home late at night and noticed one of their dome lights was on in their car. Normally I would call my neighbors and let them know; why not? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I parked my car, went inside, and went to bed. Bad karma catches up with you.

[RicT]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

so why can't the neighbor simply have asked the teacher to stop that practice or else the HOA will have to get involved.

I'm afraid this is our culture these days... to completely avoid any and all confrontation. Sadly, we've turned into a society of cowards.

But in this particular case, I don't think a "neighborly chat" would do any good as this "issue" is just too much of a blatent HOA breach for such tactics. Would it be something as simple as a wayward mutt crapping in the rose garden that would be different of course.

[slowbill]

Why don't parents raise their kids? I don't think dropping a 3 year old off to a business is the right way to raise a kid. This might sound old fashion, but look at the conditions of familes today. Maybe mom or dad should raise the kids and do without the newer car or bigger house.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by slowbill

Why don't parents raise their kids? I don't think dropping a 3 year old off to a business is the right way to raise a kid. This might sound old fashion, but look at the conditions of familes today. Maybe mom or dad should raise the kids and do without the newer car or bigger house.

Excellent point, Slowbill.

Obviously, "Keeping Up With The Jones" takes precedence!