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Wow! Thanks everyone for the encouragement. I feel much better knowing that others agree I made the right decision.
ivanabacowboy, that's quite a story about your sister's house. I'm glad you posted it here because I think it helps me to see how much damage could really happen and how expensive it could be. For what it's worth, I hope your sister's situation improves. Sounds awful.
ArizonaBear: Yeah...my mom always kind of jokes about me having an angel over my shoulder because it seems at pivotal points in my life I've always had signs like this that pop up, whether for good or bad. I think paying attention to those signs is pretty important. It's funny about the neighbor, too, because I've been over to the house several times and this was the first time he approached me. So, he may have been debating for a while whether or not to tell me...I could tell he felt really bad about it. On a happy note, in this age of people behaving selfishly or just being indifferent, isn't it wonderful to know that there are still people who act altruistically, even perhaps to their own detriment?
Now, I wonder about the next 'newbie' who may not be as lucky as I was to have the neighbor there during the time of inspection. But don't you think that the other things alone would be enough to cause them to walk away(assuming they're wise enough to have an inspection done)? I'm asking because I wonder if maybe I should try to be proactive and maybe stick some sort of secret note under the door for future visitors. Or would that be unethical? I just wonder if I should help the next person the way I was helped? What do you think?
Now, I wonder about the next 'newbie' who may not be as lucky as I was to have the neighbor there during the time of inspection. But don't you think that the other things alone would be enough to cause them to walk away(assuming they're wise enough to have an inspection done)? I'm asking because I wonder if maybe I should try to be proactive and maybe stick some sort of secret note under the door for future visitors. Or would that be unethical? I just wonder if I should help the next person the way I was helped? What do you think?
I wouldn't leave a note at the house for a couple reasons.
1. If someone is going to buy that house they will need to have their own inspection anyways.
2. You aren't 100% positive that what the neighbor told you is true.
I am sure that the neighbor was truthful with you, but you don't absolutely know that there really are those problems with the house (for example, the sewer) so I wouldn't advise you to let the next buyer know. They are going to need to find out on their own or hopefully the neighbor will talk with them too.
I tend to agree that even though the neighbor may be well-intentioned, but he may not have the full story (maybe while he was away on vacation the sewage problem was fixed...who knows?).
And I believe that most likely any decent inspection will turn up the other problems I mentioned, no?
I feel horrible. I love that house. Did I make the right decision, canceling the contract after the inspection? I guess I'll never know...I feel so sad. Well, for those of you who like to engage in a bit of schadenfreud, here's a story for you!
Anyhow, on Friday afternoon, I could hardly wait to get through the inspection, hoping nothing would be found terribly wrong. The house was built in the 50's, so I was already aware of some obvious and aesthetic upgrades that would need to be done...such as replacing the ceiling fans, building a carport, improving the landscape. Also, the closet doors to one room were missing, ones in the bedroom were warped...just the average stuff you find in a foreclosed home. However, compared to all the other homes I've seen, this one is a star. It not only has character, plenty of space, but has a wonderful floorplan(something rare for older homes!), and had many, many, upgrades already done throughout. New AC, copper plumbing, all tile, new kitchen cabinets and appliances, etc. It's in a great neighborhood, too. And no visible cracks in the walls, no evidence of any major damage. A lovely dream house listed at about 200,000 in Central Phoenix. Now, my agent comped it at $190,000 but there were supposedly other bidders so I got it by bidding the original listing price. Definitely at the higher end of my comfort level with the budget, but still within my range of affordability, granted there weren't any dramatic discoveries during the inspection. And I loved that house!
Ok...please keep in mind I am a first-time home-buyer, and therefore totally inexperienced when it comes to all things 'house'. My only concern going into the inspection was the sloped grade of the landscape, in which the street is actually about 2 feet higher than the house...in fact the entire house has the appearance of being a bit 'sunken' into the ground. While walking around in the house, I never detected any flood damage, no scent of mold, no cracks in the foundation, so I just figured that they must have had some sort of drainage around the house that would protect it during monsoon season. And in general the home is not in a flood zone. I was hoping that the inspector could detect if there were any problems related to this.
Anyhow, fast forward to the inspection. It seems to be going relatively well with the inspector...no major issues...just several things here and there(e.g. functional but non-perfect electric wiring in the kitchen, a few loose tiles on the roof, minor leaks from faucets, etc). But then suddenly I see a man from across the street walk out of his house and into my yard, and he then knocks on my door. He is very friendly and half-apologetic to me, and proceeds to inform me of the following:
Apparently the gentleman who had owned the home since the 50s had had some problems with sewage backup, due to the home originally being hooked up to an older city pipe that was much further away than the newer one which is basically on the property line for regular hook-up. As the neighborhood filled up with more homes and trees, the tree roots penetrated into the piping, causing him to have a roto-rooter done about once a year. At some point, a few years ago, the owner passed away and gave the home to his daughter. Unfortunately, instead of fixing the problem, by having a plumber dig out a path to the street sewage(presumably creating a new pipeline with the new plastic pipes that don't fall apart), according to the neighbor, the daughter had some plumber come out every month to do maintenance on the old sewage connection. So, it seems the problem became progressively worse. Assuming the original owner had the house paid off, I'm wondering if the house had been used as an ATM for a while to make certain upgrades but maybe the crash caught up with them, because why would they leave? And I'm wondering why they wouldn't fix the sewage issue first(I know it's expensive, but...)? So, this was surprise number one. According to the inspector, the job could be done by a plumber without city permits, which would save some money, but it still might be at least a couple thousand dollars. Yikes. Ok...I'm still in. Did I mention I love this house?
Then we go back inside for a minute and the inspector mentions that the tile in the living room is uneven. And by golly, now I notice it, too. Kind of like miniature waves. Almost not visible unless you look hard. But he doesn't seem too concerned about it, so I'm good with it so far.
Then the termite inspector comes along and informs me that I've got termite tunnels in the master bedroom, in the guest room closet, and all around the perimeter of the house(subterranean termites)...and the reason why the termites like my house so much is because there is literally no drainage system around the foundation of the house, and the soil is right there next to it, so the little fellows are using my house as a McTimber Happy Meal. Not only that, but probably to try to 'prevent' flooding, someone had placed 2x4 wood planks all around the base of the house, in attempt to divert water, it seems. So, no French Drainage system, nada. Now, I understand that termites are pretty common in AZ, and that they can be treated, but my issue is, how do I know how long those critters have been munching on my crib? Days, weeks, or years? Unfortunately, the inspector said there was no way of knowing whether any structural damage had taken place because the walls were so thick with plaster and paint; he tried knocking on the walls but still couldn't tell. Now, I'm also starting to worry about those waves the general inspector mentioned earlier. Could those uneven tiles I saw in the living room be a result of warping of plywood underneath the tiles, and thus a sign of previous flooding in the home? What if there was flooding? But wait, I didn't smell any mold, or see any cracks in the walls? So it must be alright, right?
Then, later, while I'm trying to wrap my head around the details, I get a call from my aunt who lives in New Orleans, who used to be a real estate agent(she's retired nowadays). Along with her friend who's a contractor. I tell them the whole story and my aunt and her friend say to walk away from it...especially due to the drainage problem. She said that they even have ways to cover up the mold smell and paint over any cracked walls...that they may have had flood damage. But I dunno...these banks just seem to be doing so much else these days that I doubt they could be bothered. Unless it was the home owner who tried to fix it up in effort to short sale it prior to foreclosure?
I mean, short of tearing up the tiles in the living room or knocking down the walls, is there any way of knowing the potential extent of damage due to termites or flooding? I mean, I'm not hung up about things I can fix...it's the thought of my house crumbling around my while I sleep that really disturbed me, to the point where I called my agent on Saturday and requested cancellation.
Sorry this is so long...but does anyone have any thoughts or experiences regarding my experience?
I don't know how things work in AZ but, here in NC any alteration to a plumbing system should be inspected. This will cover you, the plumber, and all others involved in the event that there is a problem. Furthermore, you would want, it seems, to know that the job was done right b/c when the ditch is filled back in, you'll never know if it's done right. That was horrible, unprofessional advise from your home inspector. Permits around here cost $75 and the amount of labor and materials don't change. You still have to run a drain from point A to point B.
As for did you make a bad decision, it depends on if you could have negotiated the price with all the work that had to be done. You may have been able to come down off their price and have enough money to make all the needed repairs.
I don't know how things work in AZ but, here in NC any alteration to a plumbing system should be inspected. This will cover you, the plumber, and all others involved in the event that there is a problem. Furthermore, you would want, it seems, to know that the job was done right b/c when the ditch is filled back in, you'll never know if it's done right. That was horrible, unprofessional advise from your home inspector. Permits around here cost $75 and the amount of labor and materials don't change. You still have to run a drain from point A to point B.
As for did you make a bad decision, it depends on if you could have negotiated the price with all the work that had to be done. You may have been able to come down off their price and have enough money to make all the needed repairs.
Yes, simply make an offer. Get an estimate for repairs plus something for aggravation and make the offer. You will feel better if the offer is rejected at that point, at least you tried.
You did the right thing. People do strange things, I am referring to when the op mentioned about the lack of sewer work done. We had a next door neighbor that had extensively remodeled the outside of the house. New concrete driveway, new fence, painting, etc. We always thought it was weird that they barbequed outside so much, even in the winter in Chicago. Turns out they did not have a working stove!!!
Now how crazy is that? You spend thousands on the outside, but yet have no oven/stove????!
It is just to bad that their are not any other homes to buy in the Phoenix metro. Sure would be nice to have a selection of homes to look at and put offers on. Maybe someday the market will take a dive and you will have other housing options.
I have owned the house I am now in for 26 years and had it in use as a rental. I retired from most of my labors, and sold all my rentals except this one, because I have always liked it because of it's location. After continuing to rent it for another 5 years, the people who had been renting it for 7 years finally moved into their own new home.
At that time I decided that the property would bring quite a bit more if I just went in and updated a few areas. Since anyone will tell you, kitchens and bathrooms give greatest return, so I started there. Now, all of those things are very nice, but even I, as a seasoned Landlord with much experience in maintaining properties, was shocked as the materials and labor mounted up. Any time you redo anything in a house, remember that all associated systems need to be checked also and possibly redone. For instance, if you spend a lot of money on the kitchen, it doesn't do any good if the plumbing from there to the sewer is shot. Or just as bad is having too little electrical capacity to run that shiny new convection oven or the other new appliances that you just put in. Granted, I went well beyond what had to be done, but my total spent on a 1500 ft house, even doing most of the work myself was over $60,000.
My advice to any first time buyer would be to look at newer houses, and have them inspected by a pro, or expect and budget for systems to need repair ranging from minor to major from time to time.
I think you did the right thing, mostly due to the sewage problem. You dont know how big a mess it could have ended up being. The uneven tiles could have been from poor installation. The termites would have bothered me also, although I hear they are very common here. It sounds like you have a good inspector!
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