NHL Coyotes file for bankruptcy and will move to Canada (Phoenix: home, to buy)

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by observer53

The kind of crime you describe can happen in any office building parking lot at night. And probably does. That alone, IMO, does not make Los Arcos "an area of crime and blight". Would it have been a better location for the arena? Yes, most certainly. But it takes more than that to make the team a winner so that they really draw the crowds in this fickle sports town. And, Scottsdale had the right to turn it down.

And the NHL commissioner did make such a statement, as it was reported today. The NHL has been pushing this concept of placing teams in nontradiitional markets for a long time (Phoenix, Nashville, Florida) and they haven't backed off it yet. I know this Commissioner isn't held in the highest esteem, so what you choose to believe from his statement is, I suppose, up to you.

I miss the old Phoenix Roadrunners.

The NHL commissioner is the not the same as its board of governors(owners of the other teams). The commissioner can make a recommendation but the actual decision is not in his hands. In the past, the board sided with the commissioner but it's doubtful they will do so now since the team is losing money which affects their bottom line since the owners with profitable teams have to support teams like the Coyotoes who are losing money. If the team moves to southern Ontario ie Hamilton, the team will likely a profit which means the other owners would lose less money. Furthermore, if the team is kept in Phoenix by some miracle, then Glendale will likely pursuit some legal action to make sure the team plays in Jobing.com arena which means nothing will change. So it's pretty a much a given the Coyotes are gone. The team may be in Phoenix for another year but that would be due to legal reasons. The only hope is for Jerry Reinsdorf, the Bulls owner and Phoenix resident, to purchase the team and move them back to downtown or another part of the valley but that's a tall order. The reality is you have an owner in Balsillie who is offering 212 million for the team which is likely to the be highest offer the team will get. If the NHL and Glendale work out a deal with Reinsdorf, it will likely be for less than that amount. In addition, the Coyotes have a lot of debt and owe creditors. In the courts, the judge will likely rule in favor of the creditors and would sanction this deal from Moyes to Balsillie. So the NHL and Glendale have a huge mountain to climb and are not in a position of power.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,7594520.story

[azcater]

I'm one of those hockey fans in the East Valley and you're right, it was impossible (ok not impossible, but it would take 75 min easy) to get over to the west side for a game during the week. So, I wasn't able to attend as often as I liked.. really bummed to hear they are leaving!

[Finger Laker]

they're not leaving for definite yet - here are my basic thoughts on the coyotes franchise - i hope they can figure out a way to make it work

location is not the issue at all ...... many cities in the league have arenas in a more difficult location and pull good crowds - the difference is those teams win

also, the yotes drew about the same #s down town as they do in glendale - despite being a novelty and a team that would make the playoffs when they were down town

this franchise hasn't won a playoff series since 1986 - they haven't even played in at least 5 years

they also aren't the worst team in the league as far as attendance - this year they were 3rd to last, however they were within 1,000 fans of colorado, columbus & NJ - two of which are constant winners - one of which is considered a great hockey town and the 3rd a young exciting team that made the playoffs

the year prior they were 2nd to last, but within 500 fans of playoff bound boston and within 700 of NJ and washington

in 2007 they finished ahead of boston, NJ, washington, NYI get this - iconic hockey cities chicago & st. louis

2006 they were 22nd in the league - again ahead of chicago, st louis, etc

the last time this team made the playoffs was in 2001 - 2002 ........ it's just a shame they played in a crap arena with an insane amount of restricted view seats

so what has this franchise done to win fans since then?!

2002 - finished in 4th place in the division - at that time their worst effort in phoenix

2003 - last place in their division (maybe the league?!)

2004 - lockout

2005 - last place in the division

2006 - last place in the division

2007 - got out of the cellar and provided some hope with young players

2008 - found the basement much more to their liking again

It would be painful for the city of glendale to lose this franchise that brings in around 14,000 a night into glendale close to 50 times a year ....... if they ever get their crap together and field a winner the economic impact would be huge

losing the coyotes would be a severe blow to westgate and the surrounding area

i think the league wants to make it work here, i think the cities want to make it work here and i think it's in the best interest of the game to make it work here

phoenix isn't a wasteland of a hockey market ......... it's just a very fickle sports city

this is what the coyotes need in order of priority:

1 - ownership - spread it out and stabalize it - especially in light of the bankruptcy
2 - win - make the playoffs, get people engaged
3 - star power - find a personality the community can connect to
4 - tv - get them off chanel 7 and mandate all games broadcast in HD
5 - community - i think this team does really well in the community and they do offer killer deals (including student/teacher, military and public service walk up deals for both upper & lower level seating) - however, they need to be a little louder with the good they do

however, without winning the other 4 will be for naught

[pbenjamin]

I think location was a big factor. I live in the middle of the city and I wouldn't want to find myself that far out in the middle of nowhere at 9:30 on a weeknight. I can imagine what someone from the east valley would think.

Of course, I wouldn't go across the street to see a hockey game, but that is a different issue.

[Finger Laker]

it's far from the middle of nowhere - it's also not that far out from the center of the city

also attendance is no worse at this location, despite a team that is no longer a novelty, has had much less success than it did downtown, etc

there are also plenty of teams with stadiums that are "out of the way" in neighborhoods you wouldn't want to be hanging around in after the game that draw fine (see philadelphia for an example)

[azriverfan.]

Finger Lake

I'm sorry to disagree with your but your facts are wrong. The team used to average 15 sold out games per year when playing in downtown which is far more than than what they have averaged in Glendale. The attendance numbers were better in downtown. Also, it is far from downtown and the center of the city, let's not foolishly debate that because you can't intelligently argue the stadium is not far from the "center of the city." The fact remains the majority of the hockey fans in this city live in the east valley. Keeping the Coyotes in Glendale is not the solution. Unless the team is a contending one, people are not going to sit in traffic for 60-75 minues AFTER WORK driving to Glendale. It's just not going to happen. The only real solution and unlikely one is to get a new owner AND relocate the team back to downtown or in the east valley. And there is the novelty of playing in a new stadium and providing all these magnificent views but apparently that didn't lure people to Glendale either. Sorry but you are living in some fantasy world if you think the location hasn't hurt the Coyotes, it clearly has. I'm guessing you live in Glendale because outside of Glendale, I haven't heard of anyone state the location hasn't hurt the attendance.

[Finger Laker]

look at the attendance in 2001 and 2002 and look at it now

if the average attendance per game is pretty much identical at the end of their downtown days and now, how has the change in location effected it?!

winning is the only way to draw people - if they win people will show up to glendale, downtown, mesa, wherever ..... if they are not winning the people will not show

that's the bottom line

win and you get gate

they still sell out games when the draw is big enough

however, they haven't even come close to playoff push since being in glendale and with that they drew an average attendance about identical to when they last made the playoffs playing in downtown

there is at least a million people within an easy 20-30 minute drive - more than enough to support a team ...... plus many more who are willing to make the drive

if you put out a quality product the west valley has shown time and again that it will get people to show up

the problems with the coyotes that have zero to do with location and are pressing concerns:

1 - ownership ('nuf said)
2 - winning - you have to give the fans something to be excited about - look at the cardinals - bad ownership, small crowds, etc - they changed their face started winning and fill that building
3 - identifiable stars - once again contrast the sports teams in the valley - the cards have guys like whisenhunt at the helm, fitz & boldin as targets, warner as a QB, some exciting defensive guys - people can get behind them ..... the suns have nash, shaq, and a slew of guys that people can support ......... the d'back lack that personality and have trouble selling out a playoff game and face anemic crowds despite winning (downtown no less..........)
4 - the fickle nature of AZ sports fans

[observer53]

Well, it sounds like it's going to get interesting in Bankruptcy court, based on the initial hearing. stay tuned.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by observer53

Well, it sounds like it's going to get interesting in Bankruptcy court, based on the initial hearing. stay tuned.

LOL...agreed, let's keep this thread alive for the process. We can look back and laugh at my posts if the Coyotes end up staying.

[azriverfan.]

Finger Lake

I agree that winning will draw the crowds. You won't get any disagreement from me there. However, you often need the crowds to win meaning you need to generate enough money to pursuit quality free agents, coaches, general managers etc. Like I said, we are both fans and I apologize for my snide response earlier. I'm a passionate fan that's really upset by this.