NHL Coyotes file for bankruptcy and will move to Canada (Phoenix: sale, lease)

[observer53]

And, more interestingly, whether Moyes controls the team and had the authority to file bkcy in the first place.

I'm amazed it never occurred to Glendale to take the fact that the team might fail financially into consideration under the terms of the contract. There's a huge financial penalty if they just left, but that may go out the window in a bankruptcy.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

It's unfortunate to see any team move.

And it could really screw up the divisions.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by observer53

And, more interestingly, whether Moyes controls the team and had the authority to file bkcy in the first place.

I'm amazed it never occurred to Glendale to take the fact that the team might fail financially into consideration under the terms of the contract. There's a huge financial penalty if they just left, but that may go out the window in a bankruptcy.

Curiouser and curiouser.

It's not suprising. Glendale has had this little brother mentality of trying to prove itself to the rest of the valley. This is why they were aggressive in pursuing both stadiums. I don't think they gave it much thought and just assumed that a nice stadium would bring fans instead of doing their research and realizing that most of the fans live in the east valley and would likely not travel during rush hour on weekdays.

At the same time, you have to give Glendale credit. There was no other city in valley including these beloved east valley cities that were making any effort to build a stadium for the Coyotes. They would have moved anyway had Glendale not come to the rescue so I don't fault Glendale at all. They were doing what the cities in the east valley should have done. We wouldn't have the Cardinals if it wasn't for Glendale.

As Valley Native likes to say: the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) mentality of the valley prevailed back then. Everyone wanted the Coyotes to stay but when it came to putting up money and funding a stadium, everyone looked the other way. Seriously, why didn't the city of Phoenix build a stadium for them in downtown.

On a positive note, if that stadium issued occurred today, I can see cities aside from Glendale pursuing this stadium and getting things built because the NIMBY attitude declines each year and things get passed.

[Finger Laker]

that and there is no real contractual prevention against bankruptcy - it's a hard thing to work around

you can try to get more money up front, but that's a difficult thing to do

basically all you can do is your due diligence - the NHL is still supportive, ellman is still about as greasy as they come and moyes is just getting crushed

once again though - there is zero evidence location has had anything to do with attendence

there was no difference in average attendance at either a downtown location or the glendale location .... their historic attendance has been pretty much flat for as long as they've been here, regardless of where the barn was located

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

there was no difference in average attendance at either a downtown location or the glendale location .... their historic attendance has been pretty much flat for as long as they've been here, regardless of where the barn was located

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that. The average attendance from 1996-2000 averaged 15,000+ fans in an old non-hockey stadium with bad sight lines. It's averaged 1000 less fans per night in a brand new stadium with amazing sight lines and more amenities. The only way you can prove that location had nothing to do with the demand is to put the same stadium in downtown Phoenix and measure the attendance there.

Let's put it this way, do you genuinely think if that same stadium was located in downtown Phoenix that attendance wouldn't be affected? I doubt any logical person would bet good money that location didn't impact attendance. I'm not suggesting they would sell out games but it makes logical sense that more people would attend simply to proximity for the majority of people living in the valley.

[Finger Laker]

not really - they were also more successful downtown and had the same attendance - they were also a novelty when the first moved as well

you trade a new building for the lack of success, lack of novelty and losing a season due to a lockout and it's a wash

there is zero and i repeat zero true evidence that the move hurt attendance or location hinders attendance

all anyone can lean on is "their fans were in the east valley" which has no evidence and doesn't account for fans gained from the west valley who didn't go before

as stated earlier there are well over a million people within 20-30 minutes of the stadium (in traffic) - more than enough to draw a crowd

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

not really - they were also more successful downtown and had the same attendance - they were also a novelty when the first moved as well

you trade a new building for the lack of success, lack of novelty and losing a season due to a lockout and it's a wash

there is zero and i repeat zero true evidence that the move hurt attendance or location hinders attendance

all anyone can lean on is "their fans were in the east valley" which has no evidence and doesn't account for fans gained from the west valley who didn't go before

as stated earlier there are well over a million people within 20-30 minutes of the stadium (in traffic) - more than enough to draw a crowd

I've already given you evidence. The numbers are there. They averaged 1K more fans from 1996 to 2000.

Stating there are a million people within 20-30 minutes of the stadium is meaningless. You have to examine demographics. To suggest that all residents are created equally makes little sense when it is well know that cities surrounding the stadium as Sun City, Sun City West, and Arrowhead in Glendale have large percentages of retireed people who didn't attend the games. The majority of the people attending came from the east valley and Phoenix.

Nonetheless, your own argument can be used against you. You claim there are a million people within 20-30 minutes of the stadium. What about 3 million people that would be within 30 minutes of the stadium if it was in downtown.

It's a flawed argument at best

[Finger Laker]

1996-97: 15604 - 83 points - 3rd in division - playoffs
1997-98: 15405 - 82 points - 4th in division - playoffs
1998-99: 15548 - 90 points - 2nd in division - playoffs
1999-00: 14991 - 90 points - 3rd in division - playoffs
2000-01: 14224 - 90 points - 4th in division - 1st 90pt team to not make playoffs
2001-02: 13161 - 95 points - 3rd in division - playoffs
2002-03: 13229 - 78 points, 4th in division

2003-04: 15467 - 68 points, 5th in division

2004-05: Lockout

2005-06: 15582 - 81 points, division cellar
2006-07: 14988 - 67 points, league cellar
2007-08: 14820 - 83 points, 4th in the division
2008-09: 14875 - 79 points, 4th in the division

their best year downtown beat their best year in glendale by 22 fans - even with the novelty and playoff appearances attendance was consistently better in glendale 2003-2004 was the season they made the move (i believe it was in december of that season)

as you will also not they've had their worst years on the ice in the new building

so with attendance being worse downtown, the team more successful and hockey a novelty it's obvious that this is a matter of location

you have absolutely no idea on this one aside from rhetoric - deal in facts and quit creating strawmen

[homlish560]

Is anyone aware that Moyes is probably filing Bankruptcy just so he can avoid the penalties for moving the team out of Glendale???????

This dude is such an a$$-wipe. I hope he loses the Bankruptcy case, the Coyotes stay here, and somebody more reliable takes them over and tries to give them a make-over.

They need to stay at Jobing.com Arena!!!!!!!! Tax money went into building that Arena for the Coyotes, and all that will be wasted and flushed down the toilet if they move to Canada.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by homlish560

Is anyone aware that Moyes is probably filing Bankruptcy just so he can avoid the penalties for moving the team out of Glendale???????

This dude is such an a$$-wipe. I hope he loses the Bankruptcy case, the Coyotes stay here, and somebody more reliable takes them over and tries to give them a make-over.

They need to stay at Jobing.com Arena!!!!!!!! Tax money went into building that Arena for the Coyotes, and all that will be wasted and flushed down the toilet if they move to Canada.

Well, of course. He filed bankruptcy in order to be able to sell the team to the Blackberry guy from Canada and get out of the $750 million payment.

The arena situation is more than just the money to build it. Coyotes staff was managing everything at the Arena... paying the staff, booking the other events, etc. All that would have to be replaced....plus losing the 40 event nights the Coyotes use.