Light Rail (Phoenix, Tempe: gangs, airport, authority)

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

To a certain point, there's nothing wrong with being independently mobile in terms of owning a car ... however, Phoenix's mistake was that we relied exclusively on surface streets & the "grid system" for too many years (roughly from the 1950s through the mid '80s). Freeways were planned, but the NIMBYs kept protesting them, claiming that we would be too much like L.A. if freeways were built. So Phoenix as a metro area plodded along for several decades with only two or three small freeways while other smaller metro areas were building them at rapid speed. That pathetic NIMBY attitude turned Phoenix into a huge congested mess. The freeway system we have now wasn't really started until the latter part of the '80s and into the '90s. By then, the "new" freeways were outdated.

The same pathetic NIMBY mentality can be blamed on the negativity toward light rail. Today's anti light rail NIMBYs were yesterday's anti freeway NIMBYs. They refuse to grow up, and are unwilling to accept progress until many years later. That's why many modern day NIMBYs are accepting or even supportive of freeways. They are just closed minded about things like transit, highrises, theme parks, and other amenities. If and when more of those things come to fruition, the NIMBYS will eventually shut up until they can find something else to protest or gripe about.

In defense of the Phx area--------the true bastion of NIMBYism here in Arizona) would have to be Tucson----------that city is a giant PITA to get around in, even at 2PM.

Flagstaff and Prescott do not count since both of those cities can nestle comfortably within Tempe (population wise) with room to spare.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

This is simply not true. Almost all costs of infrastructure are borne by the developer and passed along in the cost of homes. In addition, most new homes also pay impact fees for some years after the house is built.

If I recall, you were one of the posters who claimed that highrises in downtown Phoenix were funded via taxpayers. That is not true at all, and I wondered where you obtained your data to prove that. In fact, only the Sheraton was paid for with public money from the city ... which admittedly, I wish would have been funded through private capital like the other projects. However, any kind of downtown/urban/infill development works the same way in terms of impact fees. The land is privately owned, and developers pay for most of the infrastructure upgrades. The nice thing about that vs. suburban sprawl is the infrastructure is already in place, so there is less of an impact, and therefore fewer costs in most cases.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

In many new developments, the schools were built by the developer and donated to the districts or the land was. You can't sell homes without a school nearby.

Like it or not, there are many childless people who couldn't care less about schools nearby, and having to pay taxes to support schools is an unnecessary burden on them. Regardless of who paid for the new schools, the taxpayers in the district are still stuck with the upkeep for the entire system. In fact, everybody regardless of where they live is paying for public education ... not only via property taxes, but via sales taxes as well.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Where the public does bear the brunt of development impact is in such things as freeways, arterials outside of the development, water treatment cost, and arguably aggravation and loss of quality of life.

That was exactly my point about public money being used for new infrastructure in all the far flung suburban areas. Developers might pay imact fees for some of the additions, but tax/bond money is used for the major surface streets, water lines, streetlights, sidewalks, schools, libraries, freeway improvements, etc.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

These costs typically are funded by bonds and special taxing districts which, unlike light rail, impact ONLY those who benefit directly.

You may or may not have noticed that I'm not a huge supporter of light rail, but what I've tried to point out numerous times is that the initiatives for transit/light rail were put on the ballots twice and approved overwhelmingly by the voters. It wasn't forced on us ... and in fact, it would have been much different if light rail was pushed through by a higher governing body without any input from the voters.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Anyway, voters had the opportunity to require more of these costs be paid by development but turned it down soundly several years ago. In fact, voters have consistently opposed any measures which would rein in developers in this community. If you consider a referendum to be "case closed" then it is time for you to go quietly into the night on this and let the will of the people prevail.

I'm all about the will of the people, and am the first one to argue that the final decision in these matters should rest with the voters. Regarding the opposition to require more impact costs to be paid by developers, I believe you are referring to the 2000 proposition that dealt with growth boundaries. While the idea sounded good, it went too far, and that's why I (along with a vast majority) voted against it.

I just don't understand the continuous rants against light rail by the vocal minority when it was clearly approved in two separate phases, and has already been built. It's not going away ... in fact, further expansion is coming soon. Regardless of whether certain people are fans or foes of lght rail, the statistics speak for themselves: ridership has met or exceeded expectations thus far.

[JillinTempe]

My only conniption about LR is the trains are always full, standing room only sometimes. Not many gentlemen will offer a woman their seat. The days of chivalry are long gone.

[homlish560]

Originally Posted by JillinTempe

My only conniption about LR is the trains are always full, standing room only sometimes. Not many gentlemen will offer a woman their seat. The days of chivalry are long gone.

I'll offer my seat to a woman if she's standing for a long time - but not because she's a woman.

If someone is carrying a big Load or is disabled I'll give up my seat - to a man or woman. Gender means nothing to me when I'm being courteous.

Would you give up your seat and let an older disabled man sit down?????????

[Design7]

http://abqstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/metro-light-rail-phoenix1.jpg (broken link)

http://abqstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/light-rail-station-1.jpg (broken link)


I will say this, the light rail stations are some of the coolest, back to the future . . . flash gordon . . . metropolis looking structures in this or any city. Yet I am amazed at how well they compliment the cityscape. The next Iron Man movie should use a metro station as a backdrop for a fight scene. Cool stuff!

A misplaced New Yorker wandering about Phoenix - abqstyle

[punkymom]

I only wish they could get moving and expand light rail to the entire valley. I would love to ride the light rail down Grand Ave into downtown to watch the DBACKS games.

[LocoAZnative]

Originally Posted by abqstyle

I will say this, the light rail stations are some of the coolest, back to the future . . . flash gordon . . . metropolis looking structures in this or any city. Yet I am amazed at how well they compliment the cityscape. The next Iron Man movie should use a metro station as a backdrop for a fight scene. Cool stuff!

A misplaced New Yorker wandering about Phoenix - abqstyle

I know Im going to get flamed for this but stop posting the same crappy over photoshopped pics all time. Big deal you can use PS tone done the greens.

[dinolux]

Originally Posted by abqstyle

I will say this, the light rail stations are some of the coolest, back to the future . . . flash gordon . . . metropolis looking structures in this or any city. Yet I am amazed at how well they compliment the cityscape. The next Iron Man movie should use a metro station as a backdrop for a fight scene. Cool stuff!

A misplaced New Yorker wandering about Phoenix - abqstyle

Cool pictures!

[LocoAZnative]

Originally Posted by dinolux

Cool pictures!

Ya might be cool if this wasn't the 100th time they have posted the exact same pics here. They are just spamming their website.

[dinolux]

Originally Posted by AZnative4Life

Ya might be cool if this wasn't the 100th time they have posted the exact same pics here. They are just spamming their website.

Maybe so, but still - pick your battles. There are far worse things going on around here.

The pictures are great and as an outsider coming to Phoenix soon, I appreciate the positive opinions regarding the city versus some of the crap that gets spewed by people who hate the city.