WHY I HATE PHOENIX! Or is it Feeniks? (real estate, foreclosures)

[bungeebrain]

[quote=brittZ;555853]Wow!! counsElor J, what an elloquent post. You are more than welcome to not ever come to Arizona . . . ever.

I hate not having to lock my doors for fear of not being victimized.


Where in Arizona do you live? Better yet, where on this planet can you live and not worry about locking your doors?

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by twiggy

At least I'd live longer and I wouldn't be as embarrassed about how we treat our poor, or how many children die from lack of health care in America. Arizona leads yet again in that area. If we love it so much here then why don't we talk about how to fix it? Or do you just love the weather? Or maybe the cheap labor? As far as being able to handle living in a big city most Arizonies seem to be in kindergarten. Maybe its the sprawl? It doesn't look like a big city? Everythings so flat!

Maybe 3.5 million people in Phoenix metro is tiny compared to NY or Tokyo.

We have been fixing AZ. Did you live here 15 years ago? Believe me, Arizona's much better now, thanks to Napolitano. When I was in high school, veteran teachers, people with college degrees and years of experience, were making $19k. Now, teachers make at least $34k their first year. We're actually being careful about selling trust land now. There's a lot less corruption at the state legislative level. There are more choices for schools now, including a huge amount of private and charter schools, which weren't available to me in high school. The public schools are much more competitive.

The border problem isn't entirely the state's fault. The federal government is supposed to fund border security improvements and hasn't done a good job doing that.

As far as issues like pollution go, there's only so much you can do when your town is a sprawl and everyone has to drive to work. I wish we could have subways, but the ground is too rocky and the water table is too high, so it's impossible.

I have voted in every major election and whenever we have state propositions come up since I turned 18. Do you think that 100% of the population in other cities vote? No, life is too comfortable in America to care. If we were oppressed and were denied the right to vote, I bet the voting rate would go up when we could again.

I think you're looking at what's directly in front of you. Try looking back at least 10 years back and see what's changed. No such thing as a utopia, you know. I know that Phoenix has problems and annoying stuff, but so does everywhere else. I've seen Arizona change drastically, some good things, some bad. Such is life.

PS: I grew up in Europe. You are trapped in an illusion if you think they have it all figured out lol. Besides, Europe is a big place. I wouldn't mind living somewhere in Scandinavia where I'd have a pretty great quality of life, but then I'd be paying enormous income tax rates. Nothing is free...not anywhere.

[Elmonellie]

Originally Posted by councilor j

Well I dont live in Phoenix,but I've been a few times,Phoenix sucks,not much too it,Phoenix is like a mid-size city,I see it more like Tucson or Albuquerque but spread out all over and a million more people,Phoneix dont even have a big amusement park and the malls are like that of smaller cities,nothing to see in Phoenix,but maybe sports and thats it,I just cant see why people wanna move there and go through 115 degree heat.The crime is bad and I know people like to say its no different from anywhere else but Im sure its not listed the in the top 3 of most dangerous metro areas because its so safe,I think that states that there is more crime per capita than in other metro areas.Some people may never see a crime in their lifetime in Phoenix but others who post they feel so safe at any time can be a victim of a crime.

"Phoneix(!) dont even have a big amusement park..." Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Finally a REAL reason to hat Phoneix.

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by Artliquide

Maybe 3.5 million people in Phoenix metro is tiny compared to NY or Tokyo.

We have been fixing AZ. Did you live here 15 years ago? Believe me, Arizona's much better now, thanks to Napolitano. When I was in high school, veteran teachers, people with college degrees and years of experience, were making $19k. Now, teachers make at least $34k their first year. We're actually being careful about selling trust land now. There's a lot less corruption at the state legislative level. There are more choices for schools now, including a huge amount of private and charter schools, which weren't available to me in high school. The public schools are much more competitive.

The border problem isn't entirely the state's fault. The federal government is supposed to fund border security improvements and hasn't done a good job doing that.

As far as issues like pollution go, there's only so much you can do when your town is a sprawl and everyone has to drive to work. I wish we could have subways, but the ground is too rocky and the water table is too high, so it's impossible.

I have voted in every major election and whenever we have state propositions come up since I turned 18. Do you think that 100% of the population in other cities vote? No, life is too comfortable in America to care. If we were oppressed and were denied the right to vote, I bet the voting rate would go up when we could again.

I think you're looking at what's directly in front of you. Try looking back at least 10 years back and see what's changed. No such thing as a utopia, you know. I know that Phoenix has problems and annoying stuff, but so does everywhere else. I've seen Arizona change drastically, some good things, some bad. Such is life.

PS: I grew up in Europe. You are trapped in an illusion if you think they have it all figured out lol. Besides, Europe is a big place. I wouldn't mind living somewhere in Scandinavia where I'd have a pretty great quality of life, but then I'd be paying enormous income tax rates. Nothing is free...not anywhere.

Sorry I think I know so much about the history of Phoenix but I have lived here for 30 some years and we moved out here for my fathers job at ASU. He was a professor of Southwest history for 30yrs and had 5 books published on it. Not to mention being quoted, still, in the newspapers and being referenced in numerous books for the history of Phoenix. Google his name, Bradford Luckingham, and buy a book and read it. The metro area has always had it's problems but those and others have been amplified by the rapid population growth. We can't handle the growth! If you own a large business this is a great place for you. If your a subdivision builder, this is a great place for you. If your a college student, this is a fun place for you. If your a middle class family, you are going to experience the pit of our problems. Education, pollution, and low wages for college grads. and bad climate for small business. If your Walmart or Target you'll love it! There isn't a lot to do with your kids here, there is a lot of drug abuse, and a lot of turn around. A lot of people move here, can't take it and leave. Thats why nothing gets fixed. To be a native is rare. To even live here longer than 5 yrs is amazing. Look, even you assumed I hadn't been here long. That was a good assumption because most of the time you'd have been right! Because I have, and have been exposed to a lot more history about the state than most, is why I care, and want to make others aware of where we are heading. Not the other way around. I'm sick of being used by companies who have no interest in preserving culture here or providing services for our communities. Our borders are a mess, and so is the air we breath. For the first time in my life, I am considering a move back east because I just can't take the quality of life here anymore. And no, I don't care if I have to shovel snow. It's not like we have California's climate for god sake. We have a season that locks us inside too. I can't go to the playground in 110 either. It's hard to enjoy outdoor activities in the winter here when you know the air your breathing is contributing to you and your kids early death. It's ridiculous that we don't get out raged about these issues, but we just get use to them instead. We have 100,000 swimming pools here but we worry about skin cancer? We go jogging for our health here in air pollution, we hate the thought of America buying all asian products but we all shop at Target mega markets, we hate illegals but they are all mowing our lawns and putting our roofs on!
What do we stand for here? No snow and cheap sprawling homes? Then that is what we get! Everyone should stop complaining and soak up the ignorance.

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by twiggy

What do we stand for here? No snow and cheap sprawling homes? Then that is what we get! Everyone should stop complaining and soak up the ignorance.

I agree with much of what you say. My grandparents moved to Scottsdale in the 60's, back when Scottsdale ended at Camelback and wasn't snobby yet. They paid $16K for their house back then. They were just starting out with a new business, which was so much easier back then. My parents both went to ASU back when classes only cost $15 (I'm going to be paying back student loans for a very long time, and I went to ASU, one of the cheapest universities in the country, even though it's one of the largest). I agree that Phoenix is not anywhere near as nice as it used to be, but really, when population booms, what city in the world can keep its pleasant atmosphere for decades?

But...I guess, even though I do want to see change like you, and I agree that more people should care, I do see a lot of positives here.

Hey, I go outside when it's hot. I ride my bike around in 110 degree temps. I see that as a choice. There are a lot of ways to keep hydrated in the heat. There are lots of cooler places to go outside of Phoenix. When my son's older (he's 10 months now), I can't wait to show him all the fun stuff to do around the valley, and around Arizona. This is really a beautiful state, and there's so much to do here.

Remember in the 90's when people were buying historical buildings and were tearing them down to build shiny new buildings? That made me so angry. That's much harder to do now. There's so much history here, so much more than people realize. I'm just glad that AZ government realized it.

Yeah, our salaries are not proportionate to the cost of living, but we really don't have a high unemployment rate, and we have fewer homeless than cities like LA and NY. The healthcare industry has lots of opportunity here. Tech industries are moving in (Google's coming). Yeah, some big businesses are unethical, but there is a new trend of treating employees well (such as Google). I think that our job and salary situation is going to improve, but it's going to take time. I will never be rich as a teacher, but I will be able to pay my bills, live in a house and enjoy a modest life. The East Coast has a higher cost of living, as does California. Like I said in my last post, nothing is free.

I guess that any place is only as great as you decide you want it to be. I have some friends who moved out of Arizona to Pennsylvania, thinking that would be *the* life since it's so close to all kinds of cities. They're miserable because there are no jobs and they have no money to go out and see the cities. Your best bet is to do what my brother did and move to Tennessee, or some other rural area in the US. You can live a much less expensive life that way. But, then, there's a reason it's cheaper. Talk about nothing to do if you love the city life.

It's all relative.

[Elmonellie]

Originally Posted by twiggy

Sorry I think I know so much about the history of Phoenix but I have lived here for 30 some years and we moved out here for my fathers job at ASU. He was a professor of Southwest history for 30yrs and had 5 books published on it. Not to mention being quoted, still, in the newspapers and being referenced in numerous books for the history of Phoenix. Google his name, Bradford Luckingham, and buy a book and read it. The metro area has always had it's problems but those and others have been amplified by the rapid population growth. We can't handle the growth! If you own a large business this is a great place for you. If your a subdivision builder, this is a great place for you. If your a college student, this is a fun place for you. If your a middle class family, you are going to experience the pit of our problems. Education, pollution, and low wages for college grads. and bad climate for small business. If your Walmart or Target you'll love it! There isn't a lot to do with your kids here, there is a lot of drug abuse, and a lot of turn around. A lot of people move here, can't take it and leave. Thats why nothing gets fixed. To be a native is rare. To even live here longer than 5 yrs is amazing. Look, even you assumed I hadn't been here long. That was a good assumption because most of the time you'd have been right! Because I have, and have been exposed to a lot more history about the state than most, is why I care, and want to make others aware of where we are heading. Not the other way around. I'm sick of being used by companies who have no interest in preserving culture here or providing services for our communities. Our borders are a mess, and so is the air we breath. For the first time in my life, I am considering a move back east because I just can't take the quality of life here anymore. And no, I don't care if I have to shovel snow. It's not like we have California's climate for god sake. We have a season that locks us inside too. I can't go to the playground in 110 either. It's hard to enjoy outdoor activities in the winter here when you know the air your breathing is contributing to you and your kids early death. It's ridiculous that we don't get out raged about these issues, but we just get use to them instead. We have 100,000 swimming pools here but we worry about skin cancer? We go jogging for our health here in air pollution, we hate the thought of America buying all asian products but we all shop at Target mega markets, we hate illegals but they are all mowing our lawns and putting our roofs on!
What do we stand for here? No snow and cheap sprawling homes? Then that is what we get! Everyone should stop complaining and soak up the ignorance.

I may pick up one of your fathers books. Thanks for that info. But your father is not you and I doubt I take your opinion about this area any more than the guy that cooks my french fries. Reflected glory is sad.

I'm glad you are considering a move back east. Hope it works out for you.

[Leaving AZ]

Artliquid I find it very hard to believe that you have lived here very long I've read some of the post and some of the things you say makes no sense at all first of all I dont know where you can live here where it cools off at night in the summer time unless you are in the middle of nowhere unless cool to you is 90? And Scottsdale has always had to reputation of being snobby my grandparents came here 25yrs ago and the reason they didnt choose Scottsdale to bye a home was because of the snobby vibe of the town, Scottsdale will always be known as Snottsdale. And give me and example of what I can do in this state with 2 kids 6 and 4 I'd like to know there is only so much swimming we can do in my eyes this state is a very boring place for kids! Its hot from April - Nov that leaves 4 months of good weather that means 8 months of Hot Yes Nov, Oct, April and May the nights cool down but sorry kids are in school and by the time it cools down Its to late to be outside the day is over. Anyway just my opinion but that is why Im finally leaving!

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by Leaving AZ

Artliquid I find it very hard to believe that you have lived here very long I've read some of the post and some of the things you say makes no sense at all first of all I dont know where you can live here where it cools off at night in the summer time unless you are in the middle of nowhere unless cool to you is 90? And Scottsdale has always had to reputation of being snobby my grandparents came here 25yrs ago and the reason they didnt choose Scottsdale to bye a home was because of the snobby vibe of the town, Scottsdale will always be known as Snottsdale. And give me and example of what I can do in this state with 2 kids 6 and 4 I'd like to know there is only so much swimming we can do in my eyes this state is a very boring place for kids! Its hot from April - Nov that leaves 4 months of good weather that means 8 months of Hot Yes Nov, Oct, April and May the nights cool down but sorry kids are in school and by the time it cools down Its to late to be outside the day is over. Anyway just my opinion but that is why Im finally leaving!

My grandparents moved to Scottsdale in the 60s. My mom was 8. According to them, Scottsdale was not like it is now back then. My grandparents lived very modestly and paid a fair amount for their house even for that time, not the $400K houses cost now. My parents bought their current house in Scottsdale for $100K in 1992. That was cheap. The cost of houses has really only gone up in the last 10 years or so.

I moved here when I was 6 months old. I would have been born here if we weren't in Oregon because my dad was getting his Master's degree (my older brother was born in Mesa). I stayed here till I was almost 4, then spent 10 year in Europe for my parents' work. Arizona was our home state in the US. I was here again in 84-85 for 3rd grade. Then, I moved back here right in 8th grade and have been here ever since. So, I've lived here for...20 years total. So, yes, I have lived here a long time. Weird you think otherwise.

No, Scottsdale has not always had a snobby reputation. My grandparents are the opposite of snobs (they went through the great depression with a smile on their faces after all). I believe their stories about how it used to be here. Ask anyone who has lived here for over 40 years. In fact, I get tired of being called a snob just because I'm from Scottsdale. I think that those who are so closed minded are the snobs. I've never been anywhere near being rich, and I do know people who grew up with money who are some of the un-snobbiest people I've met. Jealous much? Yeah, there are some jerks, but stereotypes are just as dumb as being a snob.

As far as cooling down...live in a cookie cutter house where you're so close to your neighbors that you can hear their conversations...guess what? All the asphalt, concrete and building materials trap heat. As I've stated before (you obviously didn't actually read all my posts), I live on a horse property which means we have lots of natural earth and vegetation and heat actually has a chance to dissipate. If you call 90 degrees hot, then you must either never go outside, or you're used to snowy winters. Let your blood thin out a little (which happens naturally when you don't lock yourself up in your house or the mall). When your blood thins, it doesn't feel so hot here. Sure, from May to August, it's hot, but not 8 months like you said. What were you expecting when you moved here? It's a desert. It's going to be hot a few months out of the year, but the rest of the year, it's quite bearable.

Water? We actually have lots of it in AZ. We have a high water table, which means that there are springs all over AZ. You can go north (Sedona and Christopher Creek area, or around the Verde River/Fossil Creek), or you can go east to the White Mountains area, or there are springs and creeks south of us as well.

Things for kids to do in the Valley? The zoo, the botanical gardens, Wildlife World Zoo, the Challenger center, the Phoenix Science museum, the libraries usually have lots of activities for kids (reading is good for kids), the Mesa Children's museum, day camps (ASU has a bunch), pro sports, bike riding (the Scottsdale green belt is great for that), tubing on the Salt River (though it's dirty), white water rafting upstream on the Salt River (very fun and clean up there), water parks, kids plays, movies and all the other regular activities like bowling, etc. So much to do. What exactly are you looking for??

[Leaving AZ]

Our Water Parks are nothing compared to the ones in the Midwest or East Coast have you ever seen them? if you havnt you should go sometime Look up Wisconsin Dells youll see what Im talking about. And how about Mall of America ever been there we should have one of those they have an indoor theme park now why dont we have one? The zoo here is only good for zoo lights to sorry I took my kids once and they were misserable it was a birthday party in Nov and all the kids were hot and cranky and thats Nov. Fossil Creek I will never go there again you risk your life just getting there! I do agree with going up North and we love to do that Sedona to slide rock Flagstaff for the snow Prescott just to enjoy the outdoors.

As far as Scottsdale you have your opinion I have mine.

Well Im happy you are able to live on horse property although horses arent my thing unless you are surrounded by trees or grass I dont see how it can get cool at night its still Hot to me like I said unless you think 90 Is cooling down.

Im a native of AZ for 26 yrs my blood has never thinned out Im still not use to it here. We have family all over my mom works for the airlines so we grew up seeing all these neat different states and I thank my parents for that it made me open minded and realize AZ is not the only state in the U.S. there are so many more beautiful places here. So I ask my self why am I hear so now my home is for sale and I cant wait to leave. This original Thread was for people who dont like Phoenix not for people who do. Its not for everyone

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by Leaving AZ

So I ask my self why am I hear so now my home is for sale and I cant wait to leave. This original Thread was for people who dont like Phoenix not for people who do. Its not for everyone

Well if you really do believe that the grass is greener on the other side, then have at it. I've seen a fair amount of this country and the world too, and I've come to realize through my travels that there's good and bad everywhere. It's how you choose to see your surroundings that will make you love or hate it. As far as your ownership of this thread is concerned, there are plenty of other positive, pro AZ posts in here. I don't see you attacking any of those.

Good luck selling your house. The market's not great right now.