Is it really Hell.... Should I move to Phoenix? (Scottsdale: environment, budget)

[SpeedyAZ]

From what I gather, most people complaining here are the city type young professionals... I consider myself more of the future soccer dad, suburban type who just wants to have peace and my own domain... but don't get me wrong I understand exposing my kids to culture, history etc when they are older, for sure.

That's exactly how I feel! I love living where I know my neighbors and not be disturbed by taxis driving by every 2 seconds! I like the suburbs- it's quiet, peaceful, and relaxed.

I am far too liberal and progressive for this place.

Yes you are, Arizona is a highly conservative state.

As for the nightlife, I agree with you. It is dreadful, trendy and pretentious, and not even in Phoenix.

Any nightlife is dreadful, trendy, and pretentious! You see 100 Paris Hilton wanna-be's and her boyfriend who just blew his entire paycheck.

Well I'll tell you then. I am aware of my surroundings, I am well travelled, and I am perceptive. Scottsdale is horrid.

I detect a hint of jealousy. Evidently you've never lived around people with money. Scottsdale is a great place to live! I have never had plastic surgery, I don't brag about my job, but I do love my car!

[Azrider]

Great post, Speedy, and Arrow. I could not agree more.

[the pixinator]

Wow. I stumbled on this post just surfing the net, and I find everyone's opinions interesting. I was born and raised in NC, and have lived in NYC and in Tucson, AZ. I can say that I prefer Tucson to Phoenix for several reasons. One is that Tucson is typically about 5 to 10 degrees cooler than Phoenix, and those few degrees make a big difference in the summer months.
Also, for the most part, Tucson does not fight the desert. By that I mean that most homeowners and business owners landscape with native plants like cacti, and without grass, which requires so much precious water. If people don't stop worshipping at the altar of golf within the next few decades, there will be water wars in the Southwest. Too many people are relocating to Arizona to putt around in the winter months, and golf courses are water hogs! When will we learn? Oy vey!
While Tucson is also succumbing to sprawl, I would say that there are more walkable areas, and the city currently is revitalizing part of downtown to be a mixed-used pedestrian friendly neighborhhood. However, you do have to drive to go most places. Tucson is not as bad as Atlanta yet, with its endless freeways and bypasses, and its downtown is not as isolated and shut down after business hours as Atlanta's.
I love subways, trains, and walking the neighborhoods of NYC, but the constant stimuli drain me. Some people are energized by it, but I need more peace and quiet. However, I much prefer that kind of stimulus to the horrors of urban driving, like in nightmare cities like Dallas and Atlanta.
Culturally, I like the influences from the Indian tribes in Tucson (Tohono O'odham and Pascua Yacqui) as well as from Mexico. Illegal immigration does lower the standard of living somewhat, in terms of wage drive-downs and property crime, but that is happening in other areas of the country as well in increasing numbers, so it is hard to avoid. I am a political progressive, which frequently, but not always means a liberal, but I do oppose illegal immigration. I think it keeps us all in poverty, citizens and non-citizens. Enough of that topic for now, but you will address it often if you live in the Southwest.
The thing I love about Arizona is that the topography changes drastically over all regions of the state. There are Sonoran and other types of desert, pine-forested mountains, canyons (not just the Grand one), rolling hills, red rocks, etc. It's an amazing place. (That's also similar to what I love about NC, with its mountains, beaches, farmlands, etc. Someone in another post mentioned not thinking NC was all it was cracked up to be, and if I had moved to the Raleigh/Triangle area, I would feel the same way. I love Asheville, Wilmington, and Greensboro alot more. I like the midsized cities with walkable downtowns. Plus, the beach/mountain thing is a big hook).

I currently live in Charlottesville, VA, which was ranked last year by Frommer's as the number 1 place in America to live, and it is a great town. The weather is temperate 90% of the time, there is a fantastic hopping downtown pedestrian mall, and there is tons of history. But it's not Arizona! As much as boring plop-plops (those McMansions and tract houses that are so blighting the landscape) irritate me, and Tucson has plenty, I still miss it. I miss my friends... I made alot of friends there. It seems like a much friendlier place than Phoenix. And I miss that crazy-ass brown desert that I thought was so desolate when I first got there. And I am already upset that summer is almost over, and after beautiful fall leaves, I will be faced with another East Coast winter. So, those are my thoughts. If you go to AZ before moving there, be sure to visit many cities, like Tucson, Phoenix, Flagstaff (which is a totally different vibe. I love Flag, but don't go there without a job lined up, because there aren't any). And go to Arcosanti! look it up on www.arcosanti.org It's the grooviest place you've never heard of. Just had to throw that in there.

[AussieGirl]

Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ

That's exactly how I feel! I love living where I know my neighbors and not be disturbed by taxis driving by every 2 seconds! I like the suburbs- it's quiet, peaceful, and relaxed.

The suburbs? It's all Phoenix is...one big suburb from one end to the other. It's like a cartoon that keeps repeating itself, and it all looks the same. The bad areas are mixed in with better areas so they can't be avoided, and all the strip malls look the same.

Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ

Yes you are, Arizona is a highly conservative state.

It is not 'highly' conservative, it is a state that can swing and is slowly going left the more that people move to the area of course. Maricopa County though is one of the only metro counties in the US that went to Bush in 2004, and it shows in the complete lack or arts and entertainment.

Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ

Any nightlife is dreadful, trendy, and pretentious! You see 100 Paris Hilton wanna-be's and her boyfriend who just blew his entire paycheck.

Any nightlife is dreadful, pretentious and trendy, or any nightlife in the Pheonix metro area is dreadful, trendy and pretentious? I think you definitely mean the latter.

Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ

I detect a hint of jealousy. Evidently you've never lived around people with money. Scottsdale is a great place to live! I have never had plastic surgery, I don't brag about my job, but I do love my car!

Ack! Where on earth did you get that from? Envious (not jealousy by the way, you used the word incorrectly) of living in Scottsdale? Ba ha ha ha ha ha! I'd rather chew my left arm off. There are wealthy people that live in urban areas in case you are unaware of the world, and some of these people don't even show it one little bit.

You proved my point of why the entire metro area is awful though. Who cares how much money people have, and who cares what bloody car someone owns? If I like someone and their character first, then their job and other aspects about them may be more interesting. In Scottsdale it is possessions first, and charcter second. Yuck!

My view stands, and nothing since has changed the fact that if someone likes the arts, culture, entertainment, lower pollution, and lower crime of San Francisco, Sydney and New York, then Phoenix is not for them.

If someone likes the quiet suburban life and people keeping to themselves, the lack of culture, arts and entertainment, and the higher pollution and higher crime of the Phoenix metro area, then they will like it here!

[Azrider]

Heres an article from the Republic today, its a start, a revitalization of downtown Phoenix:

Officials want downtown visitors
Changes in store to improve draw

Ginger D. Richardson
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 5, 2006 12:00 AM

Anyone who currently trudges through downtown Phoenix knows that shade is hard to find and there isn't much to look at along the massive car- and construction-clogged streets.

But city officials want to change that. And on Thursday, they announced that they plan to create development standards for downtown buildings and change their zoning ordinances and codes to make it easier to build visually pleasing structures in the downtown area.

It's an arduous process that will likely take 12 to 18 months. But if it works, downtown visitors and workers could reap the benefits in the form of more shade, better public art and lots of pedestrian-friendly buildings with street-side retail.

"The goal is to make downtown a place where people want to be," Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon said as he kicked off the Downtown Urban Form Project during a presentation at the Orpheum Theatre. "We are going to get away from looking at downtown as just steel and concrete."

The idea has its roots in the city's downtown strategic plan, which was formally adopted in December 2004. It is scheduled for implementation over the next decade.

Phoenix has hired Dyett & Bhatia, a San Francisco-based urban and regional planning firm, to help. The company has worked with cities on their growth and design efforts.



In the end, some must realize that Phoenix is a very YOUNG city, only about 40 years, (as a big city anyways) and really doesnt have the history it needs to have a lot of culture. The same goes with the downtown, especially the way things are nowadays. Companies are not looking for high-rise office towers like they used too. Just my opinion.

[ArrowThruTheMoon]

[quote=Azrider;62659]

Phoenix has hired Dyett & Bhatia, a San Francisco-based urban and regional planning firm, to help. The company has worked with cities on their growth and design efforts.
[quote]


that's all good (although the Nobel Prize winner - Richard Florida would be a better choice for urban planning), in anycase I'm glad they are at least recognise the problem, not that it really matters to me... there is plenty of Native American and Mexican heritage in AZ from what I understand... I was in DC a couple of months ago and in one of the museums about Native Americans, 3/4 of the artifacts and stories came from AZ, so I don't think our aussie girl friend has a leg to stand on (convict! - just kidding, I know how much aussies like the english)

But seriuosly, I think I like what I hear about Phoenix/Mesa, I'm looking forward to suburban life, at least for the next chapter of my life... one other question though... what about them bugs? do they come in the house? Spiders, scorpions, snakes etc?.... be honest.

[SpeedyAZ]

people don't stop worshipping at the altar of golf within the next few decades, there will be water wars in the Southwest. Too many people are relocating to Arizona to putt around in the winter months, and golf courses are water hogs!

Actually golf courses use recycled water.

Any nightlife is dreadful, pretentious and trendy, or any nightlife in the Pheonix metro area is dreadful, trendy and pretentious? I think you definitely mean the latter.

I mean the former, ANY nightlife (i.e. NYC, L.A., Miami) is full of snotty, rich, Paris Hilton wanna be's that are living a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget. I see no appeal in going to a club for a few hours, seeing a bunch of posers, and dropping $500. I haven't the money nor the time...

Ack! Where on earth did you get that from? Envious (not jealousy by the way, you used the word incorrectly) of living in Scottsdale? Ba ha ha ha ha ha! I'd rather chew my left arm off. There are wealthy people that live in urban areas in case you are unaware of the world, and some of these people don't even show it one little bit.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ition&ct=title

Jealousy: envy over one's possessions.

Yes, I used the word correctly. Nice try though.

And I am very familiar with the world, traveling is a passion of mine.

[irwin]

AZRider-

It took 40 years for this place to figure out that you need a real central business district? There are plenty of young cities in the world and most have at least figured out that having everyone driving everywhere for everything is not necessarily a good idea.

The problem with Mayor Gordon’s plan is that while the city takes 12 to 18 months to rezone downtown for street-side shopping, it only takes them weeks to zone miles and miles of desert for cookie-cutter Mc Mansions. This area talks about improving the environment and reducing the area’s absolute reliance on autos, but it takes absolutely no serious steps toward that goal.

So, excuse me if I am a little skeptical on the whole Phoenix downtown redevelopment project. I would be willing to bet that if I ever come back here in say 10 years (and that is a big “if”), the downtown won’t be that different and this place certainly will not have changed into some kind of urban cityscape.

Arrow-

I lived in Washington D.C. for about 6 years and I have been to the Museum for the American Indian several times. It is 100X better than any museum in Phoenix, Indian themed or not.

In Phoenix, Indian culture amounts to designs on highway interchanges and casinos.

[SpeedyAZ]

But seriuosly, I think I like what I hear about Phoenix/Mesa, I'm looking forward to suburban life, at least for the next chapter of my life... one other question though... what about them bugs? do they come in the house? Spiders, scorpions, snakes etc?.... be honest.

Not unless you live far out in the desert. I have never had a scorpion or snake in my home, a couple spiders but they're long gone.

[Azrider]

Originally Posted by irwin

AZRider-
The problem with Mayor Gordon’s plan is that while the city takes 12 to 18 months to rezone downtown for street-side shopping, it only takes them weeks to zone miles and miles of desert for cookie-cutter Mc Mansions. This area talks about improving the environment and reducing the area’s absolute reliance on autos, but it takes absolutely no serious steps toward that goal.

So, excuse me if I am a little skeptical on the whole Phoenix downtown redevelopment project. I would be willing to bet that if I ever come back here in say 10 years (and that is a big “if”), the downtown won’t be that different and this place certainly will not have changed into some kind of urban cityscape.

Its a start anyways. They have recognized that the downtown needs help. We will see what happens.