Urban living in Phoenix Metro Area (Scottsdale, Tempe: highrise, relocating, real estate)

[HBINDC]

We (young retirees in mid-50's) are thinking of relocating from DC to Arizona. We like urban living - being able to walk to a lot of things - and are thinking of downtown Phoenix/Tempe/Scottsdale.

The primary question is - are these places that one can (for the most part, though not entirely) do without a car. Are there a fair amount of pedestrians around? Is everyday (grocery, drugstore, etc) shopping available. If so, which of the three places mentioned above. From reading, Tempe seems like it may fill the bill.

Secondarily is a quesiton about affordability - We would like a two bedroom condo (approximately 1,200 square feet or so), move-in ready for up to about $525,000. Is this realistic?

If not these two places, do you have any suggestions for other cities (either in Arizona or outside of it)? Prime criteria other than those mentioned above is warm (or more exactly, lack of cold) weather.

[Cj81]

We (young retirees in mid-50's) are thinking of relocating from DC to Arizona. We like urban living - being able to walk to a lot of things - and are thinking of downtown Phoenix/Tempe/Scottsdale.

The primary question is - are these places that one can (for the most part, though not entirely) do without a car. Are there a fair amount of pedestrians around? Is everyday (grocery, drugstore, etc) shopping available. If so, which of the three places mentioned above. From reading, Tempe seems like it may fill the bill.

Secondarily is a quesiton about affordability - We would like a two bedroom condo (approximately 1,200 square feet or so), move-in ready for up to about $525,000. Is this realistic?

If not these two places, do you have any suggestions for other cities (either in Arizona or outside of it)? Prime criteria other than those mentioned above is warm (or more exactly, lack of cold) weather.

You are in luck!! Phoenix and Tempe are currently going through a transformation and urban living is on the rise. Right now we have a light rail under construction that will take you from downtown Phoenix to downtown Tempe. Its supposed to open December of 2008.

I think the place for you would be Tempe. Downtown Tempe is a very active area with a lot of pedestrian activity and they always have festivals and activities in the area. Plus its right next to the lake, which offers great places to walk or jog. There are currently about 5 highrise condo projects in planning or under construction in the downtown Tempe area. You may have to wait a year before you can actually move into one of these but I think it would be worth it. here are some websites you can check out. I am a big fan of all of these projects!

http://www.centerpointaz.com/ very cool and under construction.
http://www.mosaictempe.com/ - starting construction soon.
http://www.haydenferrylakeside.com/residential.htm- (broken link) on the lake.
http://www.universitysquaretempe.com/ starting const. in sept.
http://www.constellationproperty.com/tempe/ across the street from sun devil stadium, planning phase.

I think 525,000 wil get you a 2bdrm condo in most of those places.

Downtown Scottsdale is also experiencing the same kind of growth but it will be more expensive and no access to the light rail.

Downtown Phoenix also has several devleopments under construction but I think its just a little behind Tempe. Phoenix just doesn't have the street activity yet. Give downtown Phoenix another 5 years and it will be something but not yet. So you can live in Tempe and just take the light rail into Phoenix for sports and other activities. Just in case your interested here are some Phoenix developments.

http://www.44monroe.com/ - under construction
http://www.summitcoppersquare.com/ - almost complete.
http://www.cielophoenix.com/ - uptown, in planning phase.
http://www.copperpointeaz.com/ - planning phase
http://www.downtownphxrising.org/ planning phase, const. this summer.

[Cj81]

Here is a good resource for what is in the downtown Tempe area, all of the restaurants, coffee shops etc.. are in easy walking distance from any of the condo projects I posted earlier. You currently won't find a grocery store in downtown Tempe but the Centerpoint project will have one once it is fully constructed. I would love to live there, just a little out of my price range right now. good luck.

http://www.downtowntempe.com/

[silverbear]

For the most part, I agree with Cj81. A few thoughts of my own:

-- Downtown / Old Town Scottsdale is one of the most pedestrian-oriented areas in the metro area, but Scottsdale has so far elected not to participate in the light rail system. Scottsdale is essentially making the same mistake that the Georgetown neighborhood of D.C. made back when it resisted the metro system, later realized its mistake, and then tried unsuccessfully to correct the error via the never-built M Street Subway project. Unless Scottsdale rethinks its stance on light rail, it risks becoming somewhat disconnected from the urbanized corridor that is sprouting along the first rail line that runs through Central Phoenix and Tempe.

-- I believe that an AJ's grocery (upscale local chain) is planned for Downtown Phoenix; Whole Foods is a definite for Downtown Tempe.

-- I like both Phoenix and Tempe, but they have different feels to their downtowns. Downtown Phoenix is a bit grittier, but from that grit have emerged some interesting galleries and independent businesses, especially in the Roosevelt Row / Evans-Churchill Area: http://www.rooseveltrow.org/index.html

-- Downtown Tempe has traditionally had a college-town feel, but seems increasingly corporate these days. Some of the independent business formerly located in Downtown Tempe have actually relocated to more suburban south Tempe in recent years.

-- The Biltmore Area of Phoenix, especially at its nexus of 24th and Camelback, is also becoming more pedestrian friendly. Light rail will go to that area, but not until 2020 at the earliest. The downtowns of Phoenix and Tempe will be connected via light rail in late 2008.

-- Regardless of where you live, owning at least one car will still be necessary. Being totally carless in the Phoenix Metro Area would be tremendously isolating.

[irwin]

I moved here from Washington about 2 years ago. I lived in Arlington (Court House) area.

Just some warning, Phoenix is NOT WALKABLE. There are some isolated pockets, but services are bare to say the least. I live just off Mill Ave. in Tempe and even though it is one of the most "walkable" areas of metro area, I still have to drive to reach such basic things like a grocer, a dry cleaners, etc. It also is almost exclusively targeted to college age people. Most stuff is in the planning stages and may turn out alright in a few years. But, after talking to some locals, they said they have heard this song and dance before. The light rail should help but it is going to take a complete mindset change for this place to become even 1/10th what you can get in other major cities.

Here's the thing, Phoenix is a place people come to move and buy big cars, big homes, big lots, and live in what they seem to think as compounds. Even if the home is not that big, people seem to think it is their own little Wild West fort. Community and neighborhoods are sacrificed for individualism and "peace and quiet." Urban living is not something the vast majority of people out here either care about or particularly want. Most people move here from places like Chicago to get away from what they don't like about cities.

There are some goods things about the area. The weather during the winter is amazing. The summer....uh...different story. I think it just depends on your priorities and what you find important. I would suggest coming out here and really spending some time. Do A LOT of research on your own. You will hear some rather rosy pictures about this place but take it with a grain of salt.

Good luck. I am leaving in a couple of weeks. I'm going back to the East Coast as I really have never liked it that much here.

[Cj81]

Irwin, I understand what you are saying but its rather obvious that everything is changing. If you live near Mill then you have to have noticed the new Centerpoint tower rising up plus the groud work is already being done for Mosaic and University Square. Your grocery store will open as soon as Centerpoint is done. Plus look at all the development along the Lake. I don't understand how you can live so close to all of that and still be bitter about Tempe. I walk in Tempe all the time and I love it! I think all of the other ammenties will fall into place after those projects are complete. I really don't think Phoenix will ever be a city where the car is eliminated but the light rail is providing more options for us. I think the same thing will happen in downtown Phoenix and Scottsdale. Once again if you go to any of these areas you can see that its not just a song and dance, there are a lot of things being built. I know its hard to "wait it out" and see what happens. But the growth of Phoenix isn't slowing down and more and more people are choosing urban living. That is a national standpoint, not just people back East. The great thing about Phoenix is its growing up and fast, and its actually a place where you don't have to be filthy rich to own real estate. The condos selling in downtown Phoenix and Tempe are bigger, nicer and waaay cheaper than any city back East. Probably explains why so many people are moving here from back East, that and they are tired of freezing! WOW, here I am sitting in 75 degrees and I saw the news about the storm in the NorthEast today, no thank you. If you are leaving cause you just hate everything about the area then I understand but if its just the urban living experience you want , just give in another two years. Good luck

[irwin]

Originally Posted by Cj81

Irwin, I understand what you are saying but its rather obvious that everything is changing. If you live near Mill then you have to have noticed the new Centerpoint tower rising up plus the groud work is already being done for Mosaic and University Square. Your grocery store will open as soon as Centerpoint is done. Plus look at all the development along the Lake. I don't understand how you can live so close to all of that and still be bitter about Tempe. I walk in Tempe all the time and I love it! I think all of the other ammenties will fall into place after those projects are complete. I really don't think Phoenix will ever be a city where the car is eliminated but the light rail is providing more options for us. I think the same thing will happen in downtown Phoenix and Scottsdale. Once again if you go to any of these areas you can see that its not just a song and dance, there are a lot of things being built. I know its hard to "wait it out" and see what happens. But the growth of Phoenix isn't slowing down and more and more people are choosing urban living. That is a national standpoint, not just people back East. The great thing about Phoenix is its growing up and fast, and its actually a place where you don't have to be filthy rich to own real estate. The condos selling in downtown Phoenix and Tempe are bigger, nicer and waaay cheaper than any city back East. Probably explains why so many people are moving here from back East, that and they are tired of freezing! WOW, here I am sitting in 75 degrees and I saw the news about the storm in the NorthEast today, no thank you. If you are leaving cause you just hate everything about the area then I understand but if its just the urban living experience you want , just give in another two years. Good luck

I do live right off Mill Ave and as I have said in the past, it is probably the most urban setting you can get in Arizona. That being said, it is really only one street. There is no grocery store, no CVS, and my old dry cleaner closed. Sorry if I don't get excited about one street. Maybe I was just spoiled.

I agree that maybe in 3, 4, 5 years things are going to be different. Maybe. But I still think that MOST people who seem to move out here don't care or even particularly want an urban neighborhood. Look at the comments on the post about stone walls. People want to wall themselves off from the rest of society. That is simply a different attitude from what I want or find particularly desirable. In the end, it takes a lot more to form a neighborhood than just a couple of mid-rise glass condos.

[Cj81]

I do live right off Mill Ave and as I have said in the past, it is probably the most urban setting you can get in Arizona. That being said, it is really only one street. There is no grocery store, no CVS, and my old dry cleaner closed. Sorry if I don't get excited about one street. Maybe I was just spoiled.

I agree that maybe in 3, 4, 5 years things are going to be different. Maybe. But I still think that MOST people who seem to move out here don't care or even particularly want an urban neighborhood. Look at the comments on the post about stone walls. People want to wall themselves off from the rest of society. That is simply a different attitude from what I want or find particularly desirable. In the end, it takes a lot more to form a neighborhood than just a couple of mid-rise glass condos.

well there is no doubt that there are a lot of people that move to the Phoenix area with the intentions of buying a big house with a big car (The American Dream). That isn't going to change and remember there are plenty of suburbs back East as well. Suburbs were invented back East. Ever heard of Radburn NJ? The West just developed differently, instead of first the core then the burbs, like cities back East. Phoenix and LA just went straight to the burbs and completly vacated the little downtowns they had. The populations were small enough that there wern't tons of poor people left downtown. So there was just nobody downtown except businesses Thats just what happend to a lot of cities that experienced a lot of growth after WWII. The thing is , there are tons of people here just like you and me that don't want to live in suburbia! There are also tons of people who would probably move here if there was more of an urban lifestyle. So I think the point I am trying to make is that all of these projects that are just starting will be just the begining. And yes I know buildings don't make communities but people do and people live in buildings. Centerpoint is supposed to have over 900 units, thats at least 1800 people living on Mill , then you have all of the other developments combined with ASU. That sounds like the perfect ingredients for a critical mass! Those people are going to demand more development and it will just continue on. Thats just my opinion

[sheena]

Originally Posted by HBINDC

We (young retirees in mid-50's) are thinking of relocating from DC to Arizona. We like urban living - being able to walk to a lot of things - and are thinking of downtown Phoenix/Tempe/Scottsdale.

The primary question is - are these places that one can (for the most part, though not entirely) do without a car. Are there a fair amount of pedestrians around? Is everyday (grocery, drugstore, etc) shopping available. If so, which of the three places mentioned above. From reading, Tempe seems like it may fill the bill.

Secondarily is a quesiton about affordability - We would like a two bedroom condo (approximately 1,200 square feet or so), move-in ready for up to about $525,000. Is this realistic?

If not these two places, do you have any suggestions for other cities (either in Arizona or outside of it)? Prime criteria other than those mentioned above is warm (or more exactly, lack of cold) weather.

Check out Charlotte NC, I just moved here from Phoenix. They are building lots of condos downtown and something called the Epicenter, plus Trump has some projects in the works. Tempe in my 50's would not be a choice of mine. I can't stand the whole Mill Ave scene. My 19 year old son gets a kick out of it though.

[AZ_singlemother]

Maybe light rail is "too tacky" for the Scottsdale mayor