A metro area full of NIMBYs (Phoenix, Mesa: transplants, condo, house)

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Be happy that you live in a country where every person has the Freedom of Speech.

That's fine but it doesn't change the fact these people (NIMBYS) are completely assinine. Valley Native is correct and I'm glad people like him raise awareness regarding this because many people are unaware of people who file stupid lawsuits or make complaints. And I'm sure these people filing this suit don't want people to be aware of their actions.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

The problem is that they make themselves heard so loudly and arrograntly that attempting to ignore them becomes nearly impossible ... especially when they protest and involve the government in their complaints. There was a small band of malcontents in my neighborhood that fought tooth & nail to stop Donald Trump from building a 20 story building a few years ago. Sure, I would have preferred to ignore the NIMBYs because they're really nothing more than freaks with extreme boredom in their meaningless lives ... however, they were so vicious in their attempts to stop the building that the developers finally gave up, so they ended up winning their battle.

I agree and I'm glad you posted this. In the past, Phoenix was too apathetic regarding these issues and didn't take the NIMBY's seriously. But after they derailed the Trump tower and the downtown W Hotel, their impact can be felt and it has hurt this community. Their actions need to be addressed and it's nice to see an emerging movement that opposes their actions.

Honestly, I think this issue is really "Old Phoenix" vs "New Phoenix" Old Phoenix is opposed to development and doesn't like the population increases or the metropolitan development of the city. As these people die off and younger people continue to move here and demand the ammeniteis of a large city, these NIMBY movements will cease

[Peony321]

Earplugs are a great thing maybe they should invest in some. I think the growth of Phoenix is awesome to see especially in these economic times. Rock on.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

"In all fairness; mandating that fighter jets be quieter (if technically possible) and burn their av gas more efficiently for emissions reasons I can understand."

If you can do that without losing any amount of performance, yes. I doubt that is possible, though.
You'd hate for our brave men in uniform to have to go into a dogfight with subpar aircraft just because someone wanted to reduce the carbon emissions.

Note: If I'm correct (and I may not be), I do believe the F22 and F35 use their fuel slightly more effeciently than F15 and F16, respectively.

Our modern police vehicles compared to the big block interceptors of 40 years run quite clean and more powerful yet.

1969 Dodge Polara 440 Magnum: 135-140 MPH top end.
2009 Dodge Charger 5.7L (350) Hemi: 145+ MPH top end.

And the new car takes less time in hitting its top end along with 4-8 more MPG.

Civilian airliners are much quieter yet have lost nothing in power compared to the old birds so I see no reason why military spec stuff cannot be upgraded.

[SunLuver]

OK, I'm new to Phoenix...so what's a NIMBY? And from reading about their 'activities', they do sound annoying...although they have the right (to free speech...and to be annoying, LOL).

[ibarrio]

Originally Posted by SunLuver

OK, I'm new to Phoenix...so what's a NIMBY? And from reading about their 'activities', they do sound annoying...although they have the right (to free speech...and to be annoying, LOL).

NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard

[yukon]

Wow, it must be the same dingbats who purchased houses in Grapevine - by the airport - then sued DFW over noise and expansion. Duh. They lost that lawsuit. Guess they moved to PHX.

[zenkonami]

Part of it may stem from lack of research, but during the real estate boom I think a lot of did their house hunting on weekends when some of these other "irritants" were not as prevalent (trains, planes and automobiles.)

Having said that, anyone in that much of hurry probably deserves what they get when making a decision as significant as owning a home.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

These malcontents can whine and groan all they want. Nobody is denying their right to do that. However, the NIMBYs often carry their crybaby mentality to the extremes when they start lawsuits over these matters ... which in turn, swallows up more of our tax money. When they involve the legal system over things like aircraft from Luke and Sky Harbor (which were in place long before they transplanted here), they have absolutely no substance to their complaints, and that's when they need to be silenced.

This type of complaint has been going on for many years. I'm a retired airline pilot (Pan Am) so I'm acutely aware of the way people move into a community on an airport approach and then complain about the noise. And I do not agree with their side of the argument.

On the final approach path to the San Francisco airport a community was built in Foster City about 7 miles from the airport. People moved in and began to complain about the noise. The city listened and developed a noise abatement program for pilots to follow. Once these programs were in place the complaints subsided.

One was that we could not fly directly over Foster City below a certain altitude. It did not affect safety, but rather required us to be careful so as to not violate the noise abatement restriction.

There were sound monitors placed around that area, and another noise sensitive area, and if the monitor showed a db level above a certain threshold, then the airline would be notified. I believe the procedure was that the airline would be fined if they received a certain number of violations in a given period.

Noise abatement flight paths were developed all over the country to help relieve the noise issue.

At Luke there is a published jet flight path for noise abatement and safety. Realtors working those areas usually carry a map with them and many get a signature from buyers showing that they are aware of the airport in the vicinity.

So I agree that the people who move in, knowing that the airport(s) are there should accept the fact that they purchased near the airport, I also realize that they have the freedom to complain as long as it is done within their legal rights.

I don't agree with them filing costly law suits when noise abatement procedures have been in place for years, and they were aware of the airport. However, they have that right.

My point in the beginning was that in this country we have the right to express our view points; to peaceful protest; and to take legal action.

While we may disagree with their view point, we cannot take away their rights without taking away our own rights to free speech and the legal system.

Just as they have the right to complain, others have the right to express the opposite opinion. Let's hope we can keep it that way. Not every country has that freedom.

[wilberry]

i LOVE , LIGHT rail, urban renewal , and the sound of Trains at 2 AM .