Sorry but....how can you stand to live in PHX!? (Phoenix: hotel, theatre)

[drb85650]

and now this thread has covered eveything.
oops. wait.
not a word about health care.

I hear SF ain't been the same since Dirty Harry retired and moved to......wait for it............PHOENIX

[synapse]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I have to ask - Why PHX? Even for job reasons, is it worth it to stay in such a bland, soulless enviornment? I just don't get it...I would be SO depressed to live there. All it is a failed American Dream unsustainable city. Imagine PHX in 50 years, will it still be liveable? Will you able to drive your car everywhere? Isn't it difficult to live there?

Look at it the other way - isn't it difficult to live in San Francisco? A city whose state is suffering from a $26 billion dollar deficit? A city that coddles to the homeless to the point that you can't walk down Market Street without colliding with hundreds of panhandlers? A city in which the wind whips down from a fog covered ocean, where even Mark Twain referred to one of the coldest winters as a "summer in San Francisco?" A city that requires millions of dollars just to have a relatively nice house? A city that requires strolling along insanely hilly landscape just to get to the store? A city where even you have to admit, once you get outside San Francisco, is the same urban sprawl throughout Oakland and south?

Listen, I like San Francisco. It's beautiful. And I like the walkability - the same thing I love about Chicago. But most cities aren't in the San Francisco, Chicago, Boston model. Most cities are in the Houston, Phoenix, Los Angeles, Jacksonville, Miami, Atlanta, model. Why? Because most people want an affordable house. They want a yard. They want to be able to drive to their stores and be able to park. They want to be able to go visit gorgeous scenery nearby (as you can do in Arizona.) And people in Phoenix aren't totally unaware of the benefits of San Francisco - that's why light rail is downtown and why downtown is starting to infill.

Does Phoenix have its problems? You bet. It's far too hot in the summer and too sprawling, you're right. But to have my good job and affordable house in an interesting looking area of the country and be able to travel to San Francisco when I want to see a beautiful bridge, rather than live there and try to live on the same income - I'll take it. There is, in short, a reason there are more people in Phoenix than in San Francisco.

[jaada]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I'm a Euroamerican, having lived both in European cities and American cities my whole life. Currently, I reside in San Francisco, where quite frankly I think it is one of the nicest cities in America. I happen to have a high standard for cities. Yes, I am as anti-NIMBY pro-urban growth anti-sprawl as it gets. I want to see mom and pop stores, not just endless chains and malls and monolithic highways, interesting walkable neighborhoods with diverse styles of architecture, I want to see PEOPLE ON THE STREETS and not hidden away anonymously in their cars. In San Francisco, Portland, Vancouver, etc (which still lags behind many European cities), you don't HAVE to have a car, you can take the public transportation all over the city, and there's countless cultural opportunities and places to explore.

Phoenix? My God. I was there last month visiting a friend who had to be transfered there. I can't think of a more depressing place. The climate argument? I get it, I grew up in San Diego. But the heat there is oppresive. I'd rather take humidity in the high 80's than fearing everyday my windshield will explode. The suburban dream? I get it, if it meant that I didn't have to drive a mile just to grab something at a convienience store. The vast expanse of land and space? I get it, if it didn't mean barren brown desert and a yellow dust filled sky.

I've traveled all over and PHX has to be one of the most uninteresting cities. Not only did it seem like there were no people anywhere (except for streams of cars) except INSIDE restaurants or malls, there seemed to be no walkable areas except for the contrived Tempe area. Scottsdale seemed like one of those places investors said, "let's make a Disneyfied Old Town feel right here....with diagnol parking adjacent to every single sidewalk blocking the view of storefronts and the actual buildings".

There seems to be no atmosphere or ambiance anywhere. Cultural insitutions generic. Opera? Symphony? Ugh, I'm talking about interesting urban nieghborhoods with life and soul. Places I can people watch without having to sit under flourescent lighting sipping a mass corporate-produced latte/smoothie.

But the main thing for me is, that fact the city is SO unwalkable. It's like the city was built for cars, not people. And the sheer time it takes to get from one part of the city to the other.

I don't know, people. I have to get this out, and I have to ask - Why PHX? Even for job reasons, is it worth it to stay in such a bland, soulless enviornment? I just don't get it...I would be SO depressed to live there. All it is a failed American Dream unsustainable city. Imagine PHX in 50 years, will it still be liveable? Will you able to drive your car everywhere?

Isn't it difficult to live there?

i agree with you it sucks espeically this time of year when you have to sit inside to survive. but yuma sucks worse and so does san francisco, way to many people for me

[kdog]

Originally Posted by synapse

A city in which the wind whips down from a fog covered ocean, where even Mark Twain referred to one of the coldest winters as a "summer in San Francisco?"

Actually, Mark Twain never said that.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by synapse

Look at it the other way - isn't it difficult to live in San Francisco? A city whose state is suffering from a $26 billion dollar deficit? A city that coddles to the homeless to the point that you can't walk down Market Street without colliding with hundreds of panhandlers? A city in which the wind whips down from a fog covered ocean, where even Mark Twain referred to one of the coldest winters as a "summer in San Francisco?" A city that requires millions of dollars just to have a relatively nice house? A city that requires strolling along insanely hilly landscape just to get to the store? A city where even you have to admit, once you get outside San Francisco, is the same urban sprawl throughout Oakland and south?

Listen, I like San Francisco. It's beautiful. And I like the walkability - the same thing I love about Chicago. But most cities aren't in the San Francisco, Chicago, Boston model. Most cities are in the Houston, Phoenix, Los Angeles, Jacksonville, Miami, Atlanta, model. Why? Because most people want an affordable house. They want a yard. They want to be able to drive to their stores and be able to park. They want to be able to go visit gorgeous scenery nearby (as you can do in Arizona.) And people in Phoenix aren't totally unaware of the benefits of San Francisco - that's why light rail is downtown and why downtown is starting to infill.

Does Phoenix have its problems? You bet. It's far too hot in the summer and too sprawling, you're right. But to have my good job and affordable house in an interesting looking area of the country and be able to travel to San Francisco when I want to see a beautiful bridge, rather than live there and try to live on the same income - I'll take it. There is, in short, a reason there are more people in Phoenix than in San Francisco.

Best post in the thread so far. I like mom-and-pop stores, indie restaurants, public transit, and walkable neighborhoods. I also like efficient city government, accessible desert hiking, and a reasonably good quality of life at an affordable price. Phoenix is evolving to offer a good balance of those traits -- without insufferable smugness.

[synapse]

Originally Posted by kdog

Actually, Mark Twain never said that.

Damn, how about that. Well, *someone* said it, and it was good enough to sound like Mark Twain, so I'll take it.

[tolovefromANFIELD]

It is so easy to get you going guys and girls. Now all we need is FcCorales to pull some stats out showing the reason Phoenix is better than SF and Steve-O to jump in and tell us how Chicago fits into this entire equation and we shall have another thread that resembles 90% of them on the Phoenix forum.

"Euroamerican".....funnies s..t I have heard in a long time.

[azriverfan.]

This OP is an uneducated troll. The best thing you can do is ignore this thread. If you respond and extend this thread, you are giving the OP exactly what he wants.

The best thing is to ignore this thread and let it die down to page 2 and beyond.

Don't honor this fool by responding.

These types of threads are so played out. It seems like once a month we get some blatant hate filled Phoenix thread written by some psychotic troll who wants attention. Who was it last time..xeno...something. Seriously, it's not even worth disputing his points because this act is old. Just wait, it will happen again in a month. Someone will chime in about our weather or lack of things to do etc.

[AliveandWell]

Originally Posted by _Charles_

What is it with this trolls that start these phoney threads putting down Phoenix?
European-American oh puhleeeze - experience the true American dream by being real and getting a life!
SF is grossly overpriced and sure lots of folks there don't have cars - they can't afford them! It takes most of their income just to pay the bloated rents!
And quality of life for regular people - Phoenix wins. Phoenix is a middle class paradise compared to SF. All the culture in the world doesn't mean a thing when most of one's income goes just to cover basic expenses.
Enjoy your tiny apartment and have fun riding public transit. Meanhwile those of us living much better here in AZ are not thinking about you.

I'm wondering the exact same thing you are. Why on earth are there threads like this anyway

Yes SF is way too expensive probably even more so than LA. If I had to choose between living in SF vs. PHX, PHX would get my pick in spite of the hot summers. This is because I CAN have a decent and quality life there without working as hard. In SF on the other hand, I'd probably be forced to live in a place the size of a shoebox unless I was making like $150K a year. And yes all the culture in the world does not mean a thing if you can't afford it. PHX is the clear winner here!

[azriverfan.]

My opinion is this: when you are young, you should take the opportunity to live in a city like NY, SF, Chicago, Boston, Seattle etc. I think you will learn a lot and it's a wonderful experience. However, when it comes time to settling down, I would examine cities like Phoenix, Denver, Dallas, Houston, LA...even Chicago suburbs. SF isn't a city you want to live in if you are raising a family. My wife and I are anticipating twins and I'm so glad I live in Phoenix. I couldn't imagine having to raise a set of twins living in San Francisco. Sorry I'm not Bob Saget and I don't have Uncle Joey and Uncle Jesse living with me. Maybe if they were available as free nannies and I worked as a Broadcaster working 20 hours a week, i would consider it. Your lifestyle and quality of life would suffer incredibily if you lived in SF unless you were a celebrity who made a lot of money and simultaneously had a lot of free time aka Actor/Actress/Musician/Trust Fund Baby. For the other 99.9 percent of us, that doesn't apply.

This isn't to say that Phoenix lacks a vibrant night life and singles scene because it has that but I think living in a city like NY or SF for 2-3 years is a good idea if you are young, single and lack any real responsibility. But I would never settle down in those cities. If I want fun nightlife and shows, I can fly to NY for a weekend and stay at the best hotel and dine at the best restaurants and get my fill and then come back to Phoenix and enjoy day to day great quality of living. I don't want to live in a prison cell called a 800 sq ft apartment and take public transport and just have basic everyday living activities be harder because I want to feel cool and live in an urban area. No thanks