Chicago? nah (Phoenix, Scottsdale, Parks: transplants, crime, credit)

[synapse]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

The lake and buildings again...fun...oh wait no, BORING!

OK - example. Millenium Park. Millenium Park has concerts in a free, gorgeous outdoor ampitheater, a spectacular fountain where kids and parents play, a beautiful metallic structure reflecting the skyline, a stunning walkable garden, and a bridge to the Art Institute, one of the most spectacular museums in the country.

And you can *use* it. The problem with Phoenix in the summer is that not only does such a park not exist - but in Chicago, when it's 82 and sunny and gorgeous, the park is filled with people. In Phoenix, it's 110 and sunny and the small park downtown, such as it is, is empty. Yes, it's busier in winter. But that's small comfort when the days are long.

And again, I *like* Phoenix. But architecturally, culturally, historically, it just has nothing on the city of Chicago.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by synapse

OK - example. Millenium Park. Millenium Park has concerts in a free, gorgeous outdoor ampitheater, a spectacular fountain where kids and parents play, a beautiful metallic structure reflecting the skyline, a stunning walkable garden, and a bridge to the Art Institute, one of the most spectacular museums in the country.

And you can *use* it. The problem with Phoenix in the summer is that not only does such a park not exist - but in Chicago, when it's 82 and sunny and gorgeous, the park is filled with people. In Phoenix, it's 110 and sunny and the small park downtown, such as it is, is empty. Yes, it's busier in winter. But that's small comfort when the days are long.

And again, I *like* Phoenix. But architecturally, culturally, historically, it just has nothing on the city of Chicago.

Chicago is a beautiful city but those winters don't make up for that nice event. You have essentially 3 months of great weather. Those winters are brutal. Hot weather is annoying. Cold weather disrupts your life. There is a difference. You have to completely change how you live in the winter in Chicago. In Phoenix, the only people who are really affected by our hot summers are children because they don't work in the daytime and thus feel the effects more than a working adult. But for those of us who work full time, we leave for work in the morning and come back in the evening so we avoid the heat for all intents and purposes. And unlike a cold city, the weather is nice in the morning and evenings. In Chicago, the weather is worse in the morning and evening. And despite our heat, you can still do outdoor activities in the morning and evening. You can't really golf in the afternoons in the winter in Chicago.

I agree though, if Chicago's winters were not so bad, that would be a perfect city.

[synapse]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

And unlike a cold city, the weather is nice in the morning and evenings.

Sometimes. There are weeks that go by in Phoenix where the low never goes below 88. To go outside at 8:30 PM and find it's 102 degrees, sun out or not, is brutal.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by synapse

Sometimes. There are weeks that go by in Phoenix where the low never goes below 88. To go outside at 8:30 PM and find it's 102 degrees, sun out or not, is brutal.

Likewise, there are afternoons where it doesn't exceed 100 or it just barely does. I don't really feel the heat when the sun isn't out. To me it's just a number. Playing tennis at night in Phoenix when it's 102 feels a lot better than playing in 90 degree weather in Chicago in the summer for me personally. For me, when the sun isn't beaming on me, I don't really notice it. The shade makes a big difference even in the day

[synapse]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Likewise, there are afternoons where it doesn't exceed 100 or it just barely does. I don't really feel the heat when the sun isn't out. To me it's just a number. Playing tennis at night in Phoenix when it's 102 feels a lot better than playing in 90 degree weather in Chicago in the summer for me personally. For me, when the sun isn't beaming on me, I don't really notice it. The shade makes a big difference even in the day

Yes - but then it becomes a matter of where to go, even if the weather is pleasant. One of the keys to Chicago being so nice is that it has gathering places - Millenium Park, the lakefront, the museum campus. Phoenix doesn't. Even if it's nice weather, it's unclear where to go to see other people. It's too sprawling for that. What Phoenix needs is a Millenium Park.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Chicago is a beautiful city but those winters don't make up for that nice event. You have essentially 3 months of great weather. Those winters are brutal. Hot weather is annoying. Cold weather disrupts your life. There is a difference. You have to completely change how you live in the winter in Chicago. In Phoenix, the only people who are really affected by our hot summers are children because they don't work in the daytime and thus feel the effects more than a working adult. But for those of us who work full time, we leave for work in the morning and come back in the evening so we avoid the heat for all intents and purposes. And unlike a cold city, the weather is nice in the morning and evenings. In Chicago, the weather is worse in the morning and evening. And despite our heat, you can still do outdoor activities in the morning and evening. You can't really golf in the afternoons in the winter in Chicago.

I agree though, if Chicago's winters were not so bad, that would be a perfect city.

The winters are not burtal.
I hate people who whine and complain about winter.
Go to Canada or Russia if you want to experience true brutality

[acrylic]

Originally Posted by synapse

And again, I *like* Phoenix. But architecturally, culturally, historically, it just has nothing on the city of Chicago.

Really, if you want to start a discussion on history and culture (and even architecturally) from city to city, then Chicago has nothing on pretty much every city in Europe.

But it's a matter of what type of culture is important to you. Culture really is relevant. Many foreigners come to the US with this feeling that the United States has no culture. But every place has its own culture.

The PNW has its own culture seperate from the rest of the west, the Midwest has a seperate culture than the UPPER Midwest, most of Florida has a different culture from the rest of the South, California and Texas are powerhouses and have vastly different cultures, the Southwest is different... etc.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Venom

The winters are not burtal.
I hate people who whine and complain about winter.
Go to Canada or Russia if you want to experience true brutality

Likewise, go to Africa if you want to experience brutal heat, it doesn't change the fact that our summers are hot just like Russia's winters don't change the fact that your winters are brutal

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by synapse

Yes - but then it becomes a matter of where to go, even if the weather is pleasant. One of the keys to Chicago being so nice is that it has gathering places - Millenium Park, the lakefront, the museum campus. Phoenix doesn't. Even if it's nice weather, it's unclear where to go to see other people. It's too sprawling for that. What Phoenix needs is a Millenium Park.

I don't need to see other people to have a good time. I can go snow skiing in the winter. I can drive to Sedona. I can drive to Vegas in 4 hours; where are you going to go..Indianapolis or St. Louis! We have beautiful mountains to hike. We can rock climb. You guys don't have that. I don't need to deal with 8 months of cold weather just so I can enjoy a day in the park in the summer. And to be honest, if I'm going to live in an urban city with character, I would rather live in New York, San Francisco, Boston or Seattle. Those cities feel like they have more culture and things to do than Chicago.

I agree Phoenix needs more of an urban presence and a Millenium park but we are getting there. We are a new city. No city is perfect.

[Ritchie_az]

Wow. I'm gone one day, and this thread goes out of control!!