Arpaio has gone mad with power (Phoenix, Maricopa: neighborhood, buying, income)

[Robert A]

Originally Posted by Home_Kid

from time to time a bad apple falls. basically a negligence case.

Under normal circumstances, you're right. From time to time, stuff like that can happen. But it isn't "from time to time," with the MCSO. The Norberg case was an $8M judgment. Agster? $9M. Million. Of course, there's more, but those are the two biggest cases I can think of.

certainly not a profiling case, as many are suggesting is the real issue with Joe A's office.

Nobody is suggesting that is the "real" issue - it's just one that some people latch onto. I think the MCSO has a lot of issues.

and wow, NYC, LA, Chicago, and Houston i guess are good places to serve time. i'm sure it makes the residents there know that criminals are happy that at least if they go to jail it's not Joe A's jail. probably attracting more criminals to those areas too.

Silly. You get some real data and you fall back on conjecture. I guess thousands of lawsuits, tens of millions in judgments, and no apparent impact on our crime rate isn't enough to convince you.

i like Joe A's use of fairy pink outfits for his prisoners. but whoa, i'm sure the ACLU will cry civil rights on that.....

I'm glad you like the underwear. I like effective law enforcement and prudent use of my tax dollars.

[Ritchie_az]

As I've read the recent posts on this thread, some things struck me:
Most of the crime in Maricopa County happens within populated areas--incorporated areas--where city police have jurisdiction. When one posts on here that Maricopa County has too much crime, that is really a statement about city police, and not so much county. While one posts did say (without offering any evidence) that unincoporated areas of Maricopa County have a higher crime rate than other Arizona counties, if that's true, that's still an extremely small percentage of the total crime within the county.
While many who cross the U.S.-Mexico border commit no further crime than illigally crossing the border, many others do commit further crimes, and some commit violent crimes. If Sheriff Joe has the right to arrest illegal immigrants, than he should, because that reduces crime and potentially reduces violent crime. As far as Sheriff Joe raiding businesses, if you don't like that he does that, then change the law or vote someone else in.
As far as the lawsuits go, two quick points: Sheriff Joe wins almost all of them (with a few exceptions), which goes to show his office is not in the wrong most of the time, and if one Googles "L.A. County Sheriff lawsuit" (or some variable of that), one comes up with not only page-after-page of lawsuits, but many cases where they lost. So those on this thread who say "Look at all the lawsuits!" and "Look at the cases he lost and how much money was awarded!" and "They don't have lawsuits like this in New York and L.A." have a very weak arguement not grounded in reality.
Finally, the return-to-prison rates. It was discovered that one without a high school diploma or GED is much more likely to return to prison than one with a diploma. Same for a college degree.
Educated Prisoners Are Less Likely to Return to Prison | Journal of Correctional Education | Find Articles at BNET
Sheriff Joe implemented an extensive educational program for those within his prisons, in an effort to reduce the return rate. Is Sheriff Joe's educational program not working?

[Robert A]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

. When one posts on here that Maricopa County has too much crime, that is really a statement about city police, and not so much county.

Then any improvements in the crime rates also belong to city police, not the MCSO, correct?

While one posts did say (without offering any evidence) that unincoporated areas of Maricopa County have a higher crime rate than other Arizona counties, if that's true, that's still an extremely small percentage of the total crime within the county.

Clearly. But the issue is rate.

far as the lawsuits go, two quick points: Sheriff Joe wins almost all of them (with a few exceptions)

Citation please. Not that it really matters, considering the nature of the ones the MCSO has lost.

which goes to show his office is not in the wrong most of the time

I'm glad to see you have such high standards.

So those on this thread who say "Look at all the lawsuits!" and "Look at the cases he lost and how much money was awarded!" and "They don't have lawsuits like this in New York and L.A." have a very weak arguement not grounded in reality.

I posted an example of prison-condition lawsuits. I cited my source. My comments were completely grounded in reality - the MCSO sees far more of these lawsuits than four major cities combined. It is you who responds to points noboy made.

Is Sheriff Joe's educational program not working?

I don't know - the last study I'm aware of shows no MCSO impact on recidivism. If you have additional information to provide, provide it.

[plusmiles]

Bottom line is, if he's doing a bad job, then the voters will not re-elect him.

HA, HA, HA, HA. We'll have Joe until Joe decides he's done. Woo Hoo, complain all you want, the voters have spoken!!!

Move to Chicago, there's your answer.

[West Phx Native]

here is my take,
criminals do not want to go back to tent city, score one for Joe
Illegals are just that, ILLEGAL, and Joe is the only one with the balls to enforce the law.
As a Phx native, I have been watching this city turn into a rat hole due to the illegals. Neighborhoods I used to visit are no longer safe to go to. There are parts of Phx that unless you speak spanish, you are not welcome.
Joe may have some issues, but as long as he makes life miserable for the scum and the illegals, he will have my support.

[Home_Kid]

Originally Posted by West Phx Native

here is my take,
criminals do not want to go back to tent city, score one for Joe
Illegals are just that, ILLEGAL, and Joe is the only one with the balls to enforce the law.
As a Phx native, I have been watching this city turn into a rat hole due to the illegals. Neighborhoods I used to visit are no longer safe to go to. There are parts of Phx that unless you speak spanish, you are not welcome.
Joe may have some issues, but as long as he makes life miserable for the scum and the illegals, he will have my support.

most have this same sentiment.... hence why he is still in the position. GoJoe!

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Home_Kid

most have this same sentiment.... hence why he is still in the position. GoJoe!

And mostly a weird rasicts position. Fact is Joe USED to be elected by 70% to greater than 60% of the vote; he had won landslides in the past. The thing is this last election cycle he only won by 54%...hardly a "landslide" victory like he did in the past. Bottomline, as the voting public become more educated on his media tactics, lack of real enforcement, costs to taxpayers, and educated voters actually start voting in larger numbers Sheriff Joe will no longer be welcomed in a Maricopa Sheriff's uniform or office.

As for the dumb statement that you aren't welcomed if you don't speak spanish in some Phoenix neighborhoods is ridiculous and wrong. Also "west phx native," the problem with the he is arresting illegals comment is that the lawsuits he loses aren't filed by illegals BUT by legal, American born, english speaking citizens...

[Ritchie_az]

"Then any improvements in the crime rates also belong to city police, not the MCSO, correct?"

I had said previously in this thread that Sheriff Joe must be doing something right, because the crime rate in Maricopa County is significantly lower than Pima County. I was told the Sheriff's department had little or nothing to do with that because his jurisdiction is in unincorporated areas and Sun City. But then I read some posts stating that Phoenix has a higher crime rate than L.A. and New York, proving that Sheriff Joe is not doing a good job. So does Sheriff Joe have an effect on the crime rate (whether good or bad), or not? It's been argued both ways by Joe haters, so I want to know which one's correct.

"Citation please."

You said there were 2,150 lawsuits and you listed four cases where the Sheriffs department lost. So, according to your own data, Sheriff Joe wins over 99.9% of the lawsuits.

"I posted an example of prison-condition lawsuits. I cited my source. My comments were completely grounded in reality - the MCSO sees far more of these lawsuits than four major cities combined. It is you who responds to points noboy made."

The point I was making was in response to the posts that claim Sheriff Joe is doing a poor job because (supposedly) there are fewer lawsuits in places like L.A. But if one does a quick Google search, one finds not only tons of lawsuits against the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department, but many cases where they lost. In other words, the arguement that the number of lawsuits against and the number of lawsuits lost by the Maricopa County Sheriffs Department somehow indicates that Sheriff Joe is doing a poor job does not hold water (it's a logical fallacy).

"I don't know - the last study I'm aware of shows no MCSO impact on recidivism. If you have additional information to provide, provide it."

I'd like to see this study. The only link I found was by fcorrales80 on page 4, and it said nothing. I'm not saying whether or not there is a larger than average return-to-prison rate in Maricopa County (becase I don't know), but I've never seen the study that keeps getting referred to.
I do know that Sheriff Joe has an educational program to help reduce the number of people returning to his prisons, and the study I linked to shows that it's highly effective. If it's highly effective, but not working in Maricopa County, I'm wondering why, and what could be done to improve it.
The other thought is that the educational program is working. I'd like to see that study you keep talking about.

[fcorrales80]

Well one problem ritchie, is that Sheriff Joe himself said that his jails are to punish NOT to rehabilitate those jailed into good citizens, LOL! Even if that meant lower rates of ricidivism. He hasn't really invested in an "educational program" as you've insinuate because people do not general remain in county custody for more than 8 months. If it is greater then that they are transferred to DOC. There are a handful of county detainees kept for a year and even less kept anytime longer than that. Not really enough time to finish an educational program.

Also, tent city isn't really a place where convicted people are held; it is actually quite the opposite. Tent city mainly holds those awaiting prosecution. One reason Joe loses a lot of lawsuits is because of this fact. If they were convicted and sentenced it would be a different story but that isn't the case.

[West Phx Native]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

As for the dumb statement that you aren't welcomed if you don't speak spanish in some Phoenix neighborhoods is ridiculous and wrong. Also "west phx native," the problem with the he is arresting illegals comment is that the lawsuits he loses aren't filed by illegals BUT by legal, American born, english speaking citizens...

I will stand by my statement, and I am native, born and raised and living in far West Maryvale. My nephew goes to same school I went to, and half his day is lost to illegals who do not speak english. He is also harassed because he is white, and the majority in the school is now mexican. What used to be Westridge mall is now illegal central. Neighborhoods where I used to ride my bike into to see friends, I no longer drive into in a car.
Anything that makes life tough on illegals is fine by me.
What part of ILLEGAL, do people not understand ?