Race relations in Phoenix area (Mesa, Scottsdale: house, rent, income)

[scirocco22]

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[doublet]

Originally Posted by scirocco22

doublet, you infer right from your first post that racial issues pertain to foreigners ...whether illegal or not.

YES!! We can't distinguish legal from illegal. And yet our belief that someone might be illegal CAN affect our treatment of eachother. Has anyone found that to be the case in Phoenix?

Originally Posted by scirocco22

I'm deducing that we're specifically talking about Hispanics. I realize that if you were to have come right out and said that, that it would've been awkward but I think we all knew what you meant.

I do mean hispanics and my neglecting to say that was not an attempt at PC. Several posts on the Phoenix threads warn newcomers to avoid certain areas because of a high density of hispanics. This alerts me to tension resulting from an attempt to blend 2 very different cultures. Or maybe that's not where the tension is coming from . Hence my seeking input from the people who live there.

Originally Posted by scirocco22

Now, on the other hand, when Lehi says it's not a racial issue, he's (or she's) reading too much into your post. To say it's a problem of illegals coming into Phoenix might have been over-assuming what your concern is about racial tensions. Or, I don't know, perhaps that IS what you meant?.

It's hard for me to believe that there is NO additional tension as a result of the demographics. That's like saying the south has no more incidence of racial tension than any other part of the country. I'm not calling anyone a racist, I'm simply trying to identify some of the difficulties faced as a result of living in a border state. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers or make accusations or pass judgements about the white folk in Phoenix. I AM trying to understand what creates the fear that generates posts like some i've been reading that places hispanics in a negative light.

Originally Posted by scirocco22

Wait a second here, what am I doing? For one, I don't even live in Phoenix and two, what am I doing buttin' my nose into your business here in this thread anyway???

I'm glad you did butt in. Especially if it helps generate some discussion. Your perspective is welcome.

[SpeedyAZ]

I might as well chime in on the subject. First off I don't think race is a major issue in Phoenix, there is some tension in different areas but I think for the most part we all get along. The only problem I have is with Hispanics that don't speak English well and those that are here illegally. If you are of Hispanic decent, pay taxes, and speak English well enough to be understood, I have no problem with you.

If you are the exact opposite, then I do, 100% have an issue with you.

Aside from the illegal Mexicans, I don't see any racial tension. We have some biggots, but they are few and far between.

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ

I might as well chime in on the subject. First off I don't think race is a major issue in Phoenix, there is some tension in different areas but I think for the most part we all get along. The only problem I have is with Hispanics that don't speak English well and those that are here illegally. If you are of Hispanic decent, pay taxes, and speak English well enough to be understood, I have no problem with you.

If you are the exact opposite, then I do, 100% have an issue with you.

Aside from the illegal Mexicans, I don't see any racial tension. We have some biggots, but they are few and far between.

I completely agree with you. I have no problem with contributing members of society, but I do have a problem with people that only take and refuse to give anything back.

[steve22]

You have to keep in mind that Phoenix, and really the entire state of Arizona, have predominantly been composed of conservative-minded folks- at least regarding the population of natives that do exist here. When you do encounter a true Phoenix or Arizona native, they're likely to decry not just the illegal immigration issue, but the burgeoning growth issue and subsequent problems it's posing for the community in general. So from that perspective, yes, there is some racial tension; but more so just a feeling of generalized xenophobia and anxiety over unchecked population growth in the area that's sort of an undercurrent here among locals which could be construed as bigotry.

[Master Shake]

Originally Posted by Tika

I totally agree with you. No one seems to be making much of a fuss about the many Europeans who enter the country illegally. Go figure.

Or the Canadians! I think I remember a skit on an old Saturday Night Live show a while back talking about Loren Green and the "Green Card" conspiricy, and how the Canadians are creating fake green cards to enter the US illegally! Hence the name, "Green" card.

This is, of course, just a joke to lighten the tension here...

[doublet]

Originally Posted by Master Shake

Or the Canadians! I think I remember a skit on an old Saturday Night Live show a while back talking about Loren Green and the "Green Card" conspiricy, and how the Canadians are creating fake green cards to enter the US illegally! Hence the name, "Green" card.

This is, of course, just a joke to lighten the tension here...

LOL... Thanks, Master Shake!

[INPHX]

Doublet- I have replied to other post and if you havent seen the other things I have written let me say that I have lived here for 20 years plus. I have lived all over the state and in Phx for the last 10years. I guess you could say everything it is how you percieve it or want to see it. There is a crime problem, but I dont feel unsafe, I live guarded. Just like I would anywhere especially being female. Violence is very random in Phx you have to be careful everywhere. As far as race yes there is issues here Look up Prop 200 that passed about 2 years ago. But when I say issues nothing compared to the South. I was in the South in 1996 and couldnt believe I was in the US the way white people talked about blacks there and I am white. The Western part of the United States in general just doesnt have the racial tension that your probably thinking about especially living in the south. I went to highschool, college here and never really saw or was apart or heard any real issues. But I keep my nose out of it also. If anything there is way more reverse discrimination in the West than anything. Most White and Mexicans live fine together here. They have been doing so for years, people forget Arizona didnt become a state till 1848 and prior to that is was Mexican land. So yes the government in run by conservatives but the gov. is a dem. So dont have fears it's not different than any other city in some aspects just hell hot.

[AZgal]

I've lived in northwest Phoenix for 5 years from a small town in PA. I've noticed a definite change in attitude regarding this issue. I'm not sure what we've decided to call the issue here on this forum, but I feel a definite increase in tensions specifically with illigal immigrants from south of our border. I think alot of the tension comes from a language barrier, and lack of assimilation, but there is also alot of resentment about what resources are being spent teaching English as a second language and maintaining health care for the impovershed among the immigrants. Crime and drug smuggling are a whole different discussi

[Steel87]

do mean hispanics and my neglecting to say that was not an attempt at PC. Several posts on the Phoenix threads warn newcomers to avoid certain areas because of a high density of hispanics.

have predominantly been composed of conservative-minded folks- at least regarding the population of natives that do exist here.

I myself am not a conservative and I have lived in the so-called "liberal" new england, where supposedly everyone is progressive and accepting, yet I have found new england to have a much more negative, condescending, and prejudiced attitude towards hispanics and illegals in general. Yes, people in Phoenix somtimes joke about hispanics, but you won't see someone treated differently or discussed negatively. When i lived in Princeton, NJ, hispanics were considered dangerous, same with blacks. People simpled avoided Camden and Trenton and bashed the cities simply because they were "infest with minorities" as New Yorkers and New Jerseyians would say. West Windsor was often mocked and dubbed "yellow town" for its high numbers of Asians. People actively promoted racial segregation. I have never seen this attitude in Phoenix.

A more surprising experience was in North Carolina when my cousin attended music camp at Eastern Music Festival in Greensboro. A local grocery store refused to sell goods to the African Americans that attended the camp. Will you see this in Phoenix? No. Will you see segregated proms like you do in Alabama in Phoenix? No, such an action would be publicly protested by everyone, regardless of race. Is Phoenix racially segregated? Yes, but so is almost every other city. New York is "cosmopolitan", yes go to Flushing, go to Bronx, its so diverse its shocking.