Race relations in Phoenix area (hispanics, economy, illegal)

[headin2AZ]

Interesting posts related to the "non-racial" issues plaguing Phoenix. I live in Michigan and I'm debating seriously about moving to Phoenix, but wanted to listen to residents talk. I lived in CA for 13 years, so I'm familiar with the whole illegals and Hispanics drama.

Advertisements placed by governments, businesses, and realtors always make a place seem welcome. I have been to the government sites to check out demographics, but those numbers don't really talk like the people can.

I will be honest and say that after reading just a few posts, I'm skeptical about Phoenix. I'm not afraid to say that illegal immigrants along the southern borders of AZ, CA, TX, and NM are mostly Hispanic. Therefore, when problems arise with illegals and crime, Hispanics are the usually the culprits. I just read an article in your newspaper about the high school custodian who raped a 14-year-old girl and he happens to be an illegal Hispanic. Gee... this sounds like illegal immigration is an even bigger problem when a crime is committed. This is stupidity. If I managed to get my ass into America illegally, get a legitimate job and have the opportunity to live the "American Dream", the last thing I would do is commit a crime and lose my freedom and the secret life I managed to build.

Most Americans don't hate Hispanics. We just hate illegal immigrants, especially when they commit crimes. All Hispanics are not illegal. All illegal immigrants are not Hispanic. The issue is illegal immigrants - not Hispanics. If some people are too foolish to distinguish a difference, oh well...

Florida has the same problem with Haitians and Cubans. Hell, I live in MI -- home of the largest Arab population outside of the Middle East. Most people here do not have problems with Arabs because they are not known for crossing borders illegally. Also, they are not known for raping young girls (this was a problem with illegal Hispanics in CA). The only problem America has with Arabs is whether or not they are terrorists. Of course, it goes without saying that all Arabs are not terrorists and all terrorists are not Arab. I don't know if it's a problem, but we are pretty sick of them buying all the gas stations, local grocery stores, and cellular stores. Oh yeah, the East Indians have the convenient store market cornered. Don't worry people, these aren't racist remarks. It's only humor that is common in MI.

For the record, I have dated Hispanic, Arab, East Indian, and others from various countries and cultures. I have a thing for foreign men, so I have no racial issues and I don't suffer from xenophobia like some people.

I must admit that I was shocked about the European illegals. Where are they coming from? Are they crossing the border or are they coming in legally with Visas and just "forget" to return home when their Visa expires? I'm truly curious about this one.

Anyway, please tell me more about the Mesa or Maricopa County area. Or, tell me what would be the best area for a baby-boomer with Champagne taste and soda (can't even afford beer) budget to live. I'm very open-minded, somewhat of a yuppy (unemployed), full-time grad student, and don't like noise, traffic, crime, and run-down neighborhoods. If anyone is familiar with CA, I lived in the Walnut Creek (Bay area) and Encino (LA) areas. I'm looking for areas comparable to this.

[loose cannon]

Going back to my Phoenix days in 1991 I was sitting in my old office on Scottsdale Rd across from a Cajun restuarant called Barkays. I think the restaurant still exist. One of my co-workers in the office looked out the window at a black construction worker who was doing work nearby. The guy says, "Look at that **** ******!" We used to tie them to Cactus trees out on the highway back in the late 60's." Then some haggard truck driving type woman chimed in with a laugh. I could not believe this dude and I told him he was out of line. We ultimately became friends but his redncek racist rants used to annoy me. His attitude was the norm. I met others with similar views. And, the times in the 21st century that I have been out there I dont think the attitude has changed much.

[DR1665]

Originally Posted by loose cannon

Going back to my Phoenix days in 1991 I was sitting in my old office on Scottsdale Rd across from a Cajun restuarant called Barkays. I think the restaurant still exist. One of my co-workers in the office looked out the window at a black construction worker who was doing work nearby. The guy says, "Look at that **** ******!" We used to tie them to Cactus trees out on the highway back in the late 60's." Then some haggard truck driving type woman chimed in with a laugh. I could not believe this dude and I told him he was out of line. We ultimately became friends but his redncek racist rants used to annoy me. His attitude was the norm. I met others with similar views. And, the times in the 21st century that I have been out there I dont think the attitude has changed much.

I don't think that's a very helpful reply. I moved here from Wichita, KS and let me tell you, the ignorant slurs that come out of every day people in that area made me blush. Phoenix is very diversified, but there is a very, very strong hispanic culture from which you aren't going to hide.

When I drive past Home Depot on my way to work and I see fifty to seventy people, likely illegal, hanging out looking for work, I do admire the work ethic. How many white people would stand in a parking lot six days a week waiting for a chance to do some sh*t job in 120* weather? None.

I don't even mind too much if you don't speak English at all (but it's a nice gesture when you live here), but so long as you pay your taxes like I do and earn your keep, you are my fellow American and I'm proud to stand next to you.

[loose cannon]

I agree with you about the mostly Mexicans looking for work. The people are racist towards them! What annoys my friend who lives there on a regular basis is that a lot of the folks who are racist and stereotypical towards hispanics are from the midwest. My friend wishes they would go back to their whitebread snow castles. The Mexicans and the Native Americans were there long before they migrated!

[newportbeachsmostwanted]

Originally Posted by DR1665

I don't even mind too much if you don't speak English at all (but it's a nice gesture when you live here), but so long as you pay your taxes like I do and earn your keep, you are my fellow American and I'm proud to stand next to you.

1. How do you pay income taxes if your illegal!

If your illegal and working at Home Depot as you said..

2. How do you think the French would like it if you went around Paris yacking in English?!

3. Your proud to stand next to people who commit crimes, who pollute Home Depot parking lots, have lower values of education, will not assimilate, who call you racist[74% of Mexicans have rascist-hate against Americans; Zogby 2006]

[doublet]

Originally Posted by newportbeachsmostwanted

3. Your proud to stand next to people who commit crimes, who pollute Home Depot parking lots, have lower values of education, will not assimilate, who call you racist[74% of Mexicans have rascist-hate against Americans; Zogby 2006]

Now...who was it who said it was solely an immigration issue, not a race issue?

[monsoon74]

Illegal immigration is a problem. No sugarcoating it. Although some politicians would rather turn their heads or placate to 'potential voters', those same people wouldn't dare do ANYTHING for fear of being labelled as racist.

Look, there are a LOT of illegals here. And many of them are hard-working, honest, and are just looking to better their lives. And as far as coming here legally, we all know what dealing with our government and the endless red tape and paperwork entails. Heck, I wouldn't bother with it either.

Unfortunately, there also is a large number who don't contribute anything, and just use and abuse the system to their advantage. Sure, there are a lot of workers doing the jobs Americans won't do (allegedly), but there also are overcrowded classrooms and overwhelmed emergency rooms and jails, due to the sheer numbers of illegals here.

But, there needs to be a solution, and preferrably one that is non-political, and just plain common sense. I agree that enforcing the existing laws would do a world of good, but that ain't gonna happen. If the Mexican government would do anything to help it's OWN citizens, rather than assist them in crossing into the US, then that would be the best solution.
Don't think that's gonna happen either.

[doublet]

Very thoughtful post, Monsoon. I appreciate your perspective, especially reminding us that the fear of being called a racist limits our ability to do something positive...and I think we all can agree that something NEEDS to be done.

I must admit that I was very naive when starting this thread. I, like everyone else, use my own experiences as the basis for my beliefs. And my VERY limited experience with ppl here illegally has lead to my conclusion that MOST are not criminal, but rather family-centered, hard-working, willing to learn (job skills and cultural norms, as well as our language) and eager to find their place in the land of prosperity and freedom.

But our upcoming move to Phoenix has given me the opportunity to hear from others who are living a different experience. Only now do I realize how complicated this issue is, dramatically affecting us ALL on so many levels. A positive, long-term solution will not come easily or without open and respectful communication. Thanks for your contribution to that, Monsoon!

[markas214]

Originally Posted by Tika

I totally agree with you. No one seems to be making much of a fuss about the many Europeans who enter the country illegally. Go figure.

Hmmm. 3 million uneducated Mexicans and Central Americas a year vs what, 3 Europeans? I have yet to see a public meeting conducted in Polish or Italian. No sense complaining about a leaky faucet when your entire house is flooded.

[binkylafarle]

Originally Posted by INPHX

....people forget Arizona didnt become a state till 1848...

Arizona became a state on Valentine's Day, 1912. Not beneficial to the topic at hand, I know, but wanted to make that correction. Makes INPHX's point even more relevant, maybe.

Originally Posted by Steel87

....Yes, people in Phoenix somtimes joke about hispanics, but you won't see someone treated differently or discussed negatively. When i lived in Princeton, NJ, hispanics were considered dangerous, same with blacks. People simpled avoided Camden and Trenton and bashed the cities simply because they were "infest with minorities" as New Yorkers and New Jerseyians would say. West Windsor was often mocked and dubbed "yellow town" for its high numbers of Asians. People actively promoted racial segregation. I have never seen this attitude in Phoenix.

It seems that there's more of an undercurrent of this tension that exists in Phoenix. It isn't outright like in those places you describe, but it's there. I think an interesting question is whether it is better when it's outright and in the open or when it's buried and ignored.