Arizona now allows concealed weapons in bars (crimes, felony)

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

I wouldn't mind a list of the establishments that are posting the "no firearms" signs so that I could give them my business.

I'd also like the same list so I know who to NEVER give my business or my money to. Any business that won't allow me to protect myself and my family is NOT somewhere I care to patronize. I know MANY others that feel the same.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by BillR1

I'd also like the same list so I know who to NEVER give my business or my money to. Any business that won't allow me to protect myself and my family is NOT somewhere I care to patronize. I know MANY others that feel the same.

Yes, I hope someone posts a list so that people who would turn a restaurant/bar into a shooting gallery do NOT patronize one I would possibly be in. I'd rather a criminal come in take all the money and material things, leave, and have the police deal with him/her where a child, myself, and/or an innocent bystander doesn't face the additional risk of you or the criminal shooting them in an OK Corral incident.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Police don't have a legal obligation to respond to a call for help or to protect citizens from crime/criminal? Ok, now that is simply untrue and that comment pretty much discredits most of your arguments. Their core value is to "protect and serve" and take an oath for such an obligation.

You are way wrong and that discredits your arguments. The SCOTUS has ruled several times that the police have no obligation to protect individuals, most recently in 2005 (Castle Rock vs. Gonzalez). Look it up and come back and correct yourself.

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Yes, I hope someone posts a list so that people who would turn a restaurant/bar into a shooting gallery do NOT patronize one I would possibly be in. I'd rather a criminal come in take all the money and material things, leave, and have the police deal with him/her where a child, myself, and/or an innocent bystander doesn't face the additional risk of you or the criminal shooting them in an OK Corral incident.

For your reading, Google "Luby's cafeteria shooting".
So the bad guys just take the money and leave? Only in the movies....

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

You are way wrong and that discredits your arguments. The SCOTUS has ruled several times that the police have no obligation to protect individuals, most recently in 2005 (Castle Rock vs. Gonzalez). Look it up and come back and correct yourself.

Exactly correct!
"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

[West Phx Native]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

I'd rather not be surrounded by people that feel the need to carry guns, whether legally or not. The fewer the better.

I challange you to come join us next month at our open carry dinner in Goodyear, the average attendence is 60-75, all carrying sidearms, and the managers of all the places we have held our dinners at say for that night, they are the safest place to be in the valley.

The law says if you are carrying concealed, you can't drink.

So your telling me your more worried of someone who has been fingerprinted, gone thru a gun safety class, and has been proven to be a good citizen, than you are of someone who has been in the back seat of police cars, and can tell you which rides better in the backseat, and has been fingerprinted, had mug shots taken, has a bail bondsman on speed dial, and can tell you the menu at tent city ?

[West Phx Native]

Originally Posted by BillR1

For your reading, Google "Luby's cafeteria shooting".
So the bad guys just take the money and leave? Only in the movies....

Better than reading about, listen to Suzanna Gratia Hupp, she did not have her gun, because the law said she could not carry it into the business, and she watched her parents slaughtered in front of her,


YouTube - Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment!

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

You are way wrong and that discredits your arguments. The SCOTUS has ruled several times that the police have no obligation to protect individuals, most recently in 2005 (Castle Rock vs. Gonzalez). Look it up and come back and correct yourself.

Actually that was not the ruling but a lawsuit in which the police had to make a decision of who and how to protect. Moderator cut: personal Once police respond and a dangerous situation, the police CANNOT GUARANTEE everyone's safety NOR their own for that mattter (and it is NO different with you and your gun), and hence the supreme court ruling which was actually about a COLORADO law and restraining order due process which is NOT the same as an Arizona law regaurding restraining orders. You are taking things out of context. Also BillR1, the argument that when seconds count, the police are only seconds away is weak.

Another thing, while criminals may want to kill and rob at a Luby's, for the most part criminals want one thing in those situations, to escape with as much as possible and evade the police. If their intent is to kill and only to kill, it is unlikely some person with one gun is going to disarm and save us from those on a shooting rampage. Can someone have stopped the man, maybe, would he have killed either way, yes.

[Rick Lee]

Oh man, I don't know what do say if you can't read the majority decision in that case. Don't lawsuits start all cases that eventually go to the SCOTUS? Check out Warren vs. DC then, though it's a lot older. There are plenty of others too. Bottom line is NO ONE but you is responsible for your safety. In fact, the new law in AZ also does not assign liability to businesses that ban guns in case patrons, who would otherwise be armed, are injured on their property during a violent crime. Sadly, there will probably be a test case on this one, though I hope it's not for a long time. I predict most CCW'ers will ignore these signs. I know I will.

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Another thing, while criminals may want to kill and rob at a Luby's, for the most part criminals want one thing in those situations, to escape with as much as possible and evade the police. If their intent is to kill, it is unlikely some person with one gun is going to disarm and save us from those on a shooting rampage.

And...you know this how? Criminals want to escape AND leave no witnesses. Wake up!
Did you even WATCH the posted video and hear the anguish in her voice as she recounted her parents being murdered by some slimeball while her firearm was in her due car to a "law"? Could you really look her in the face and tell her the police will protect her next time and she's still not allowed to defend herself??