Would you like to see a commuter train within Phoenix? (Tucson: sales, real estate)

[w1ngzer0]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Trolley buses might have limited utility for certain local routes, but they're no substitute for commuter rail. Trolley buses may be green due to their overhead electrical power source, but they're still as slow as any other local bus. They simply would not be feasible for trips of 20 miles or more, which is the type of trip addressed by commuter rail. Even those cities that use trolley buses on some routes (Seattle, Boston, etc.) also use rail transit.

In general, the arguments in favor of buses over rail almost always overlook a basic pattern of consumer behavior: There are many commuters who shun buses due to their relative slowness, discomfort, and stigma. Many of those same commuters will take a train. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is. In the absence of perfectly rational consumer behavior, sometimes the best option is the one that people will actually ride.

If the bus was reliable, I would take it to work. Some days the bus could be on time and or early and get you there. Other times its 30 minutes late and that is not acceptable to your boss. Thats why most people i know take the bus 1 hour before the actual scheduled time, being 1 to 2 hours early to work depending on the commute. 2 + 10 hours = Move into the office, setup a sleeping bag @ work.. But what's good for the republic, I mean is good for the business, is good for Arizona. Right?

Originally Posted by joninaz

Here's an idea: If you live in Glendale, don't get a job in E. Mesa (etc). Unlike NYC, San Fran, Chicago and many other cities, it's relatively easy to live all over the metro PHX area and rent or buy across many price ranges. We're a completely different market than L.A. or NY for example, where if you want a house with a yard, you pretty much have to live far away on an above avg. income. Here, you can live near any area (save PV) with an o.k. income. In the larger picture, there are and should be inherent consequences for choosing to live in the sticks... getting a place in QC, Maricopa, New River, Buckeye, etc might get a cheaper price tag, but earns you a longer commute to the central core. That's called the trade-off of living afar. It's not the job of the rest of the metro area to compensate people for making such decisions by supplying them with an expensive commute option. If you choose to live in a nice big place in AJ, it's gonna be a pain to see a concert in Westgate. That's part of your decision in picking where to live. Likewise, anyone interested in reducing sprawl and encouraging centralized, urban growth should also be opposed to the concept. Making it easier to live in traditionally distant areas makes them more attractive to sprawling growth. On the contrary, I'm actually supportive of exploring the development of high speed rail service between major cities in CA, AZ, NV, NM, CO, etc. But spending billions to help help the sprawl developments connect to central areas needing more infill development and investment is not smart growth. Need proof? Look at any city where the downtown area lost it's vitality. It probably did so thanks the ease of moving people to the sticks.

I love auto-rebuttals.

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

What if you get a job in Mesa, buy a house there, then get laid off? And the only other job you can find is in Peoria? You gotta go where the jobs are.

I think probably 99% of us would like to live two minutes from where we work, but realistically that rarely happens.

The only real solution is to buy an RV and just park it near to wherever you're working, going to school, in jail or whatever.

Who wouldn't? But most of the jobs in this state are transient just like the people. lol @ the RV idea. A guy that does that exact idea, but he uses it to go the library!

Originally Posted by KarmaPhx

Exactly, where would you fit train tracks? We are on a grid system, and most of the city has buildings, unless you do a bunch of demo work we can't fit it IN town it would have to border the city.

Do you see the 6 to 7 lane highway in mesa? Thats where. If the SF can figure out where to put BART in an already dense city, im sure there will be ways to figure it out. Not really "out of the box" thinking...

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

That advice sounds reasonably good but it's just not always possible.

I work in Tempe but live in Avondale, and the chief reason I live there is to be close to my signifcant other that lives in the West Valley.

What's wrong with having commuter rail connecting the suburbs to the central city? Other big metros have it. Or are you just worried about the pricetag? I know it looks expensive, but it probably would amount to just a few cents more in each of our taxes everytime we go shopping.

In general: Some of you are thinking to big with the ideas of Maricopa to Phoenix, Tucson to phoenix or any other place. I am talking about within the Phoenix area only. A train between cities would be cool, but needs to be privately funded and even the commuter train should be. The state has proven they don't understand how to manage our money with anything including the light rail project.

[KarmaPhx]

Sure, you can fit it in Mesa, but only a small percentage of the population lives in the east valley, and an even smaller percentage work in the east valley.

A commuter train in Mesa would be useless to anyone in Phoenix.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by KarmaPhx

Sure, you can fit it in Mesa, but only a small percentage of the population lives in the east valley, and an even smaller percentage work in the east valley.

A commuter train in Mesa would be useless to anyone in Phoenix.

Good grief, what are you counting as "East Valley"? Mesa, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert-- Small percentage? I don't think so.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by KarmaPhx

Sure, you can fit it in Mesa, but only a small percentage of the population lives in the east valley, and an even smaller percentage work in the east valley.

A commuter train in Mesa would be useless to anyone in Phoenix.

There is a huge population that lives in Mesa / East Valley - and work in and around downtown Phoenix. Likewise - the far west valley commute to downtown.

A commuter, from Wickenburg (where many live then commute to the central valley) all the way to Casa Grande would be logical and doable. And with some exceptions, there is existing rail.

[nickw252]

Gas prices aren't going down and as the economy improves get ready for summer of 2008 gas prices, we might as well be prepared for alternatives and have diversified transportation options.

I think It's already been said but rail between Tucson and Phoenix would be really helpful.

[miamiman]

There is no need for commuter rail in the Valley. There is no centralized core of employment in the region, so it would be impossible to construct commuter rail system that could be used by workers.

Commuter rail between Tucson and Phoenix is a crazy idea too. How in the world are people going to get to their final destination once the train stops the station? This is not New York or DC. You can't just walk or use other forms of mass transit.

[Maroon197]

The bus is terrible. I used to take it to ASU every day during college and it was complete misery for four years. I don't have a single positive thing to say about the public transportation options in Phoenix.

[joninaz]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

That advice sounds reasonably good but it's just not always possible.

I work in Tempe but live in Avondale, and the chief reason I live there is to be close to my signifcant other that lives in the West Valley.

What's wrong with having commuter rail connecting the suburbs to the central city? Other big metros have it. Or are you just worried about the pricetag? I know it looks expensive, but it probably would amount to just a few cents more in each of our taxes everytime we go shopping.

As you said... you live in Avondale and want to get to Tempe. But maybe your neighbor has a job in Glendale, Deer Valley, Gilbert or Maricopa. Maybe they want to go to the airport, Arcadia or Fountain Hills. If you put a pin on the map and run a string to all the places your neighbors might want to go, that gives an idea of the number of potential train lines in all directions. Now multiply that by everyone in the valley of the sun. We're a chess board with 52 squares on a 700 square mile grid. And we want to move in different directions. Light Rail was funded through additional taxes and serves a scant 20 miles. It's been a total disaster and has drained the funds of the participating cities and sucked the new funding for other transport projects. If you model their spending, it would cost tens of billions to run rail lines all over the metro area. The state is already billions in the hole. We need to figure out how to make money.

[w1ngzer0]

Originally Posted by miamiman

There is no need for commuter rail in the Valley. There is no centralized core of employment in the region, so it would be impossible to construct commuter rail system that could be used by workers.

Commuter rail between Tucson and Phoenix is a crazy idea too. How in the world are people going to get to their final destination once the train stops the station? This is not New York or DC. You can't just walk or use other forms of mass transit.

Looking at the grid lock on all highways yesterday at 430pm, the car isn't working either.

Originally Posted by joninaz

As you said... you live in Avondale and want to get to Tempe. But maybe your neighbor has a job in Glendale, Deer Valley, Gilbert or Maricopa. Maybe they want to go to the airport, Arcadia or Fountain Hills. If you put a pin on the map and run a string to all the places your neighbors might want to go, that gives an idea of the number of potential train lines in all directions. Now multiply that by everyone in the valley of the sun. We're a chess board with 52 squares on a 700 square mile grid. And we want to move in different directions. Light Rail was funded through additional taxes and serves a scant 20 miles. It's been a total disaster and has drained the funds of the participating cities and sucked the new funding for other transport projects. If you model their spending, it would cost tens of billions to run rail lines all over the metro area. The state is already billions in the hole. We need to figure out how to make money.

What is your solution? More highway for more gridlock? more houses to destroy the natural area? more grass to suck the water that we lack? If you want to make money how about those speeding cameras for starters. We need to switch the funds the opposite way. 10% going to them 90% going to Arizona. But this is a thread about a commuter train NOT about Arizona and the lack of money that the state threw away

[Ritchie_az]

It would make more sense to me if work centers were spread across the valley more evenly. I think Phoenix metro work places are spread fairly well when compared to other large metro areas, but there is always room for improvement as the area grows.
The less the work areas are centrally located, the more chances of one living near his or her work. Surprise is an example of a suburb without enough work places.



If the HOV lanes were regular traffic lanes, that would help, too.