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Old 10-30-2009, 07:56 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,028 posts, read 12,190,422 times
Reputation: 9803

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Valley freeway projects shelved

For those who have lived in the Phoenix metro area for a lengthy amount of time, this sounds all too familiar. The 1985 vote that approved construction of 231 miles of freeways for the Valley was delayed and scaled back by ADOT in the early '90s because of a recession at that time ... which an audit later revealed that ADOT actually mis managed the tax money that was granted to them for the construction projects! We are still feeling the effects from that boondoggle because, while we have a more adequate freeway system than 20 years ago, it is a reduced system than what was planned in 1985.

Five years ago, the public fell for ADOT's scheme again and approved Proposition 400 (the sales tax extension that promised even more freeway miles, especially for the far west Valley). They even claimed that this new funding would be "recession proof". Once again, they let us down, and went back on their promise AFTER they collected the tax revenue for these new freeways!

I certainly hope those of you who keep voting to give ADOT money will be wiser in the future. ADOT is highly corrupt, and well known for breaking promises & squandering money, as was the case with the 1985 half cent tax, and now with the 2004 extension of it. This is further proof that government agencies cannot be trusted with effectively managing our tax dollars.

So what is the solution? It is becoming more obvious that ADOT needs to get out of the freeway construction business (since the department can never seem to build the roads in a timely manner). It is time to highly consider privatizing the system, build new freeways as toll highways, and create a user fee type of system. When you think about it, it makes sense in the long run because not everybody uses all of the freeways ... and it really doesn't seem right to make everybody pay for roads that they don't use. That way, we wouldn't have to keep relying on an inept department of transportation to slowpoke along with freeway construction, and keep screwing things up along the way!
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,897 posts, read 10,385,227 times
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What new freeways are you talking about?
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:18 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
4,468 posts, read 10,574,679 times
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Billions of dollars in voter-approved Valley freeway-expansion work will be postponed and scaled back after plummeting tax revenue forced a regional transportation panel to slash spending Wednesday night.

The Regional Council of the Maricopa Association of Governments voted to cut a $16 billion freeway-improvement program to just $9.4 billion.

The projects are funded by Proposition 400, a countywide measure that created a half-percent sales tax and was passed by voters in 2004.

The South Mountain Freeway, a bypass designed to relieve traffic congestion on Interstate 10, survived the cuts. But controversy over that extension of Loop 202 took an unexpected turn when Joseph Manuel, the Gila River Indian Community's representative on the panel, announced that the tribe would be willing to consider a proposal to build it on tribal land. He abstained from the otherwise unanimous vote to cut funding.

Other proposals to build, widen and make other improvements to Valley freeways will be pushed back until after Prop. 400's end date of 2025.

Because of the recession, MAG planners are projecting a $6.6 billion shortfall over the next 15 years.

MAG has to balance the budget for the massive transportation program every year. To accomplish that, the regional planning agency says it will need to:


• Defer widening 76 miles of existing freeways all over the Valley.


• Postpone 30 miles of new freeways. These include Arizona 801, which would run parallel and south of I-10 to Buckeye; the southern extension of Loop 303 in the West Valley; and Arizona 802, which connects Williams-Gateway Regional Airport to the Santan Freeway portion of Loop 202 in east Mesa.


• Scale back the design and size of the existing Loop 303, as well as the South Mountain section of Loop 202 in south Phoenix.


• Simplify the landscaping, design and sound-reduction techniques used on numerous freeways.


• Defer improvements to about a half-dozen interchanges, including carpool-lane connections for the western half of Loop 101, or Agua Fria Freeway.

MAG planners took pains to point out that deferred projects are not being scrapped but cannot be built without an influx of new money.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:19 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,028 posts, read 12,190,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPhx View Post
What new freeways are you talking about?
Please see the article in the link I provided. Included in the article is this piece of info:

Quote:
Because of the recession, MAG planners are projecting a $6.6 billion shortfall over the next 15 years.

MAG has to balance the budget for the massive transportation program every year. To accomplish that, the regional planning agency says it will need to:

• Postpone 30 miles of new freeways. These include Arizona 801, which would run parallel and south of I-10 to Buckeye; the southern extension of Loop 303 in the West Valley; and Arizona 802, which connects Williams-Gateway Regional Airport to the Santan Freeway portion of Loop 202 in east Mesa
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,897 posts, read 10,385,227 times
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Doesn't really seem like there is a need for those, compared to other areas that need freeways, or wider freeways.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:40 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,028 posts, read 12,190,422 times
Reputation: 9803
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPhx View Post
Doesn't really seem like there is a need for those, compared to other areas that need freeways, or wider freeways.
Whether there is a need or not, the point is that the voters approved Proposition 400 by a majority vote in 2004, which promised them these new freeways, as well as widening/improvement of many existing freeways. The passage of Proposition 400 extended the half cent sales tax that was supposed to expire in 2006. Basically, it continued the funding for these highway projects in the metro area. MAG and ADOT have already collected this sales tax revenue for these road projects they promised us ... and now, these projects which they HAVE the money for will be severely delayed or scaled back! Doesn't it concern you a little that this boneheaded transportation department keeps breaking promises while squandering YOUR money???
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,897 posts, read 10,385,227 times
Reputation: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
Whether there is a need or not, the point is that the voters approved Proposition 400 by a majority vote in 2004, which promised them these new freeways, as well as widening/improvement of many existing freeways. The passage of Proposition 400 extended the half cent sales tax that was supposed to expire in 2006. Basically, it continued the funding for these highway projects in the metro area. MAG and ADOT have already collected this sales tax revenue for these road projects they promised us ... and now, these projects which they HAVE the money for will be severely delayed or scaled back! Doesn't it concern you a little that this boneheaded transportation department keeps breaking promises while squandering YOUR money???
Sure it does, but there is nothing you or I can really do about it except complain.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:52 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,028 posts, read 12,190,422 times
Reputation: 9803
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPhx View Post
Sure it does, but there is nothing you or I can really do about it except complain.
Unfortunately, that sheepish attitude is one reason WHY these government agencies are ineffective and careless. When the public keeps saying things like, "well, there's nothing we can do about it", it sends a message that we as a public don't give much thought to how effectively our government is run, or how prudent they manage these funds. It's almost like giving them permission to squander our money any way they so desire.

In turn, this continuous squandering of funds and delaying of freeway projects is going to end up costing the taxpayers MORE money in the long run because construction costs keep increasing. These consistent delays and excuses by ADOT is solving nothing ... and we as taxpayers will end up paying escalated costs for freeway projects in the future which should have been completed many years ago!

Bottom line: don't vote to give ADOT any more tax money. They have proven to us more than once how bumbling and corrupt they are.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:00 PM
 
4,235 posts, read 14,014,696 times
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I don't know if ADOT has "mismanaged" the tax money or not....but wouldn't be surprised if overly rosy revenue projections were made....and they certainly can't predict recessions.....

20 years (1986-2006 - first phase) isn't an incredibly long period of time....but the difference between then and now in terms of freeways is light years....before 1986, it was only the Black Canyon Freeway, the Maricopa Freeway, and a few miles of the Superstition that existed - that is, just I-17 and some of I-10 (not yet open toward LA)....now look at what we have.....

and let's be glad most (all?) of the needed land was bought before the run-up of 2003-2006....that had to have saved many, many millions of dollars....and those bridges to nowhere built years ago saved a lot.....

the half-cent sales tax increase cost each of us, what, maybe 300, 500, 700 dollars over the last twenty + years??.....way worth it, I think....and no toll roads like in areas of Cal.....

we do have to keep an eye on our government entities, of course....I don't know if things are as doom and gloom as some feel they are
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:22 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,028 posts, read 12,190,422 times
Reputation: 9803
Quote:
Originally Posted by azdr0710 View Post
I don't know if ADOT has "mismanaged" the tax money or not....but wouldn't be surprised if overly rosy revenue projections were made....and they certainly can't predict recessions.....
They obviously didn't budget the expected revenue projections correctly ... which is the same thing as mis management. That's exactly what happened with the 1985 half cent tax that was supposed to give us 231 miles of new freeways over 20 years. They delayed and scaled back many of those projects (e.g. South Mountain Freeway, Paradise Freeway, Grand Expressway, etc.) because they didn't manage the tax revenue properly. A 1991 audit revealed that. As a result, we still didn't everything that was promised to us back in 1985!

So now, it's basically a different time period, but same old story. They collected the tax revenue which the public approved in 2004, but are unable to build the highways as promised due to their mis handling of what was allotted to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azdr0710 View Post
the half-cent sales tax increase cost each of us, what, maybe 300, 500, 700 dollars over the last twenty + years??.....way worth it, I think....and no toll roads like in areas of Cal.....
What's wrong with toll roads? I believe that is the way to go at this point. Let private enterprise take over the construction of what ADOT is obviously incapable of doing, and let the system pay for itself by imposing tolls (user fees) for those who actually drive on the freeways. It makes perfect sense, and it's an alternative that should seriously be explored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azdr0710 View Post
we do have to keep an eye on our government entities, of course....I don't know if things are as doom and gloom as some feel they are
The recession isn't as horrible as what the media and certain politicians make it out to be. Restaurants are constantly packed, shopping centers are busy, people are still contributing to the economy by buying large ticket items. The economy isn't GREAT, but it's not doom & gloom. Some people simply like to use the economic downturn as a scapegoat for why things aren't getting done. That's exactly what ADOT is doing in my opinion.
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