Give me a reason other than "no snow"! (Phoenix: rent, home)

[notmuch69]

AZ was much nicer about 25 years ago before the population explosion. Even the previously small mountain towns are cities and aren't peaceful anymore.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by notmuch69

AZ was much nicer about 25 years ago before the population explosion. Even the previously small mountain towns are cities and aren't peaceful anymore.

I have to agree with you (though I'd go back about 10 more years). But I think this is true of just about everywhere in our country. We've added millions and millions in those years and shuffled the population. All the "nice" places have been loved to death and the bad places are just worse.

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I am sick of living in Phoenix myself. For me it's too many people. And like you I have been casting about looking for a better place. You know what a major problem I have is? I can find few places outside of tony suburbs of other cities that have schools ranked as HIGH as the ones my kids attend in Goodyear. And I see no advantage moving from one city to another.

Our schools in Estrella are "excelling" under the state criteria. We get a 9 or10 from Greatschools for all of them, elementary and high school, and our test scores are significantly higher than national averages on the standardized questions. I have a hard time finding schools anywhere on Greatschools that can beat that. Estrella is nothing special. The same kind of school performance exists throughout most of Chandler, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Ahwatukee and other areas.

Is it tough being poor here. Absolutely. It is tough being a poor kid anywhere. You're pretty naive if you think that any other city offers better educational opportunities to the poorest of its citizens. Where some other states beat the pants off of us is in the rural areas. In AZ, rural schools are almost universally under-funded and under-performing. It is fascinating to drive through Wisconsin and see all the modern, glitzy schools in tiny towns. But on the other hand, Milwaukee has some of the worst schools imaginable. We do a fairly good job of education in our cities actually compared to most cities.

Well, I'm moving too Mass so I am finding excellent schools every where, people are always concerned about it out there, and I really notice a difference but hey, they sort of half to be with "Harvard" in their state. lol

I understand what your saying, and know it to be true for the most part but then, why do we rank so low? I don't understand it, it's not like we are in the middle, but we are dead last!
How can that be if all the schools rank so high? I guess it's what you say, our rural schools?
Here is some ones opinion and it's about the lack of funding affecting our ranking, which makes it harder to get good teachers here. I don't know how you feel, but there are a lot of varying reasons people think we rank last, I just can't figure it out:
Revere: Az's 'stupid' ranking about school funding, http://phoenix.about.com/cs/living/a/azlearns.htm
(this isn't stats, it's just an opinion piece on the same topic)

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by notmuch69

AZ was much nicer about 25 years ago before the population explosion. Even the previously small mountain towns are cities and aren't peaceful anymore.

I feel that way too, ha ha, but maybe because I'm just old now. lol It's the same with Cape Cod, MA, everyone tells me it's changed for the worst now. Not like it use to be, I don't think anything is like it use to be.

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by krock1dk

I find it funny that people want to move to AZ for the "better" weather, sunshine, mountains and desert. Since when do those things pay the bills and offer a good quality of life. To me, the most important things to considering consider in a state are JOBS, education, taxes, business growth and cost of living. And when looking at those factors, Arizona doesnt stack up. Though mountains are nice to look at and sunshine is warm to your face, it doesnt pay the bills and give you a job and a quality of life. For these reasons, AZ is highly over-rated. Highly. You call 110-plus temps for five months at a time "good" weather? You are a prisoner in your own home between May and OCT, for crying out loud, and cant do much of anything. By that measure and in my opinion, Pheonix has the WORST weather in the country. And dont even get me started on the state's overwhelming lack of education and jobs (even in a good econ). AZ is just over-rated. Period. I wish people would learn that and do their research B4 wanting to come here.

Puzzles me as well, but looking at peoples responses I see that sometimes the sun does over ride these things and they find what they feel are good schools here, with the sunshine. Good jobs, with the sun, etc....

I don't, so I'm leaving, but in all fairness I can see I am not the norm. Even with national statistics to back it up. Makes me think everyones right, stats don't add up to a hill of beans, people will make the choices right for them. I will do the same, for sure! lol I need different things than I can find here now, hopefully I will find it but if not, I needed to try to feel good about my life and will have at least done that.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by twiggy

Well, I'm moving too Mass so I am finding excellent schools every where, people are always concerned about it out there, and I really notice a difference but hey, they sort of half to be with "Harvard" in their state. lol

I understand what your saying, and know it to be true for the most part but then, why do we rank so low? I don't understand it, it's not like we are in the middle, but we are dead last!
How can that be if all the schools rank so high? I guess it's what you say, our rural schools?
Here is some ones opinion and it's about the lack of funding affecting our ranking, which makes it harder to get good teachers here. I don't know how you feel, but there are a lot of varying reasons people think we rank last, I just can't figure it out:
Revere: Az's 'stupid' ranking about school funding
(this isn't stats, it's just an opinion piece on the same topic)

We don't rank last. That is just not true. We may be last in per pupil funding but that does not translate into performance as you seem to insist. Teachers and administrators make less here, maintenance costs are much lower with so many new schools, energy costs are low during much of the school year, transportation costs are less because the state is so urbanized and there are so many schools, local bonding and budget overrides are not calculated in the numbers, the tax credit donations of thousands of Arizonans are not included. I don't know where he comes up with them, but fcorrales has posted a lot of numbers related to graduation rates, test performance and so on that completely fly in the face of Morgan Quitnos analysis (or the conclusions some draw from it). From what I have seen, we are in the lower half on performance but more or less average. Not good, but hardly last.

Having said that, I think we need to be spending more on our schools, particularly the university system. It is very frustrating to watch our legislature throw education to the side in this budget crisis instead of having the political will to even let us vote on it. It is bad for Arizona, bad for our future.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by twiggy

Puzzles me as well, but looking at peoples responses I see that sometimes the sun does over ride these things and they find what they feel are good schools here, with the sunshine. Good jobs, with the sun, etc....

I don't think you need to insult the intelligence or judgment of people who are happy with their schools and their neighborhoods and their life in Arizona. Your smugness in concluding that those who disagree with you are somehow deluded and rationalizing is offensive.

[actinic]

Originally Posted by twiggy

I don't, so I'm leaving, but in all fairness I can see I am not the norm.

Not true, this forum is loaded, in fact disproportionately so, with people who have become disenchanted with Phoenix and Arizona in general, many with good reason.

Most simply go to their new destination forums with the typical 'glad I left' post.

[Grannysroost]

Originally Posted by twiggy

Well, I'm moving too Mass so I am finding excellent schools every where, people are always concerned about it out there, and I really notice a difference but hey, they sort of half to be with "Harvard" in their state. lol

I understand what your saying, and know it to be true for the most part but then, why do we rank so low? I don't understand it, it's not like we are in the middle, but we are dead last!
How can that be if all the schools rank so high? I guess it's what you say, our rural schools?
Here is some ones opinion and it's about the lack of funding affecting our ranking, which makes it harder to get good teachers here. I don't know how you feel, but there are a lot of varying reasons people think we rank last, I just can't figure it out:
Revere: Az's 'stupid' ranking about school funding, Education in Arizona - Schools Must Improve
(this isn't stats, it's just an opinion piece on the same topic)

Twiggy, you bring up a lot of valid points on the education in this state. When you read that opinion piece, it is a catch-22. You have funding (reason for low in statistics) vs testing (above national average). Something must be right somewhere if testing high. The last reader comment is interesting in that this person compared the 'broken' education system to a failing business, maybe like the bailouts that have been going on for the past year. They stated fix the underlying problems in the system before handing out more money. Would raising the funding, just bring the ratings of the state via statistics up, would it be put into resources to further education for the student or primarily put into administrative costs? I don't know how these funds are governed...is it overseen by the state or up to individual school districts?

If the statistics go by $ per student that is a hard number (fact), but does how those $'s are managed come into play in the equation?

Another comment was regarding parents participation in their children's education, I believe he was thinking rather than using school as a daycare situation for the most part. I am sure that one is playing a part, but I am sure that problem is nationwide versus just AZ. Kind of the same as the computer, video games, TV, etc...

Now, thank you for your active part in some of the social issues There is nothing wrong with wanting something new, whether a job change, move to other places, etc., it is part of life and needs to be experienced at some point in life, keeps it interesting!

[ZonyPony]

Originally Posted by actinic

Not true, this forum is loaded, in fact disproportionately so, with people who have become disenchanted with Phoenix and Arizona in general, many with good reason.

Most simply go to their new destination forums with the typical 'glad I left' post.

Yeah... I guess every state has its disenchanted people... either moving on, or already having moved on to their "greener grasses"... its just a part of life...

Arizona gets its share of these poor unhappy souls as well...