New law could punish loitering Illegals outside of Home Depot etc (live, store)

[dusky_beauty]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Immigrants mean growth and growth is what has always fueled the economy of Arizona. More young people = more houses = more jobs for everybody. Open the borders and let as many come as would like as long as they are willing to work. We need more young people who care about the future of the state

How is it really helping the economy and housing market when you see a family of 10 (stacked in like cord-wood) in a 3 bedroom house so they can spend less on housing and send more of their wages back to Mexico?

Further, why do you have the idea that someone who retains Mexican citizenship "cares about the future of the state"?

You come off like an impoverished contractor who doesn't care who is living in the houses as long as people are moving here, and houses are being built and groceries are being bought.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by dusky_beauty

How is it really helping the economy and housing market when you see a family of 10 (stacked in like cord-wood) in a 3 bedroom house so they can spend less on housing and send more of their wages back to Mexico?

Yes. but it is like a long term investment. It is not them or even their kids that will boost our economy and save our country from an economic rut like Japan is facing. It it is the grandchildren - the third generation that we care about.

Further, why do you have the idea that someone who retains Mexican citizenship "cares about the future of the state"?

I would not expect Mexicans to adopt Arizona any more than someone from the midwest who moves here later in life. Immigrants always retain their affinity for their roots. You don't believe that many retirees from New York or Illinois "care about the future of the state", do you? Again. Think 3rd generation. They will be real Arizonans and Americans.

You come off like an impoverished contractor who doesn't care who is living in the houses as long as people are moving here, and houses are being built and groceries are being bought.

Nah, I am just a savvy person who realizes that to prosper we need growth. The birthrate of citizens is not sufficient to provide that growth and we need either an increase in the birthrate or an increase in youthful immigration, painful as that might be for the first 20 years or so.

Of course, we can't just open the gates and let them and and then let them rot. We need to EDUCATE the kids for the jobs of the future. Every immigrant group that has come to the US with the exception of AAs has been successful. The circumstances of AA "immigration" are obviously different, but the failure is due to racism and denial of opportunity. If we take that attitude with the illegals, as we have been in Arizona, we are in for a rough time.

[mrkool]

Originally Posted by 1751texan

Is the new law targeted against Day Labor...making it illegal to loiter for work? Or is it only targeted to "illegals"? If it is only "illegals", how does a police offercer make that determination?...Day Laborers outside a home depot...which are "illegal"? Which have Green cards, and who are US citizens?

All in this pic are illegals. Guaranteed.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I've changed my position on this now that I have seen the effects of SB1070 on the AZ economy. We need more young, hard-working immigrants. If they are illegal so be it. Immigrants mean growth and growth is what has always fueled the economy of Arizona. More young people = more houses = more jobs for everybody. Open the borders and let as many come as would like as long as they are willing to work. We need more young people who care about the future of the state than the free-loader retirees who only want to keep taxes low.

Very interesting "change of heart," Ponderosa . . .

So now you are endorsing individuals who undermine the Sovereignty of the United States, break our laws and blatantly steal from the honest, hard-working taxpayers by working "under the table" while depleting our welfare funds?

I sincerely hope you are joking.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Bummer

Very interesting "change of heart," Ponderosa . . .

So now you are endorsing individuals who undermine the Sovereignty of the United States, break our laws and blatantly steal from the honest, hard-working taxpayers by working "under the table" while depleting our welfare funds?

I sincerely hope you are joking.

I'm a pragmatist, Bummer. We have seen the devastating effects on our economy in Arizona when the growth engine comes to a halt. We need youthful immigration to our state. Fortunately, we have thousands upon thousands of young, energetic people just across the international border who are willing to risk death to come here for a chance at a better life . I would prefer an intelligent immigration policy, but it is clear that bigotry in our state and across much of the country is not going to permit that. So, yes, my position is to embrace growth by any means, legal or otherwise with the hope that we will wake up in time to appreciate the need to train and educate the children of these immigrants before we create a permanent underclass.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I'm a pragmatist, Bummer. We have seen the devastating effects on our economy in Arizona when the growth engine comes to a halt. We need youthful immigration to our state. Fortunately, we have thousands upon thousands of young, energetic people just across the international border who are willing to risk death to come here for a chance at a better life . I would prefer an intelligent immigration policy, but it is clear that bigotry in our state and across much of the country is not going to permit that. So, yes, my position is to embrace growth by any means, legal or otherwise with the hope that we will wake up in time to appreciate the need to train and educate the children of these immigrants before we create a permanent underclass.

In a PERFECT WORLD, Ponderosa . . . I would agree with you.

Unfortunately, it is obvious you are only considering the positives of Illegal Immigration and totally IGNORING the negatives.

[jimj]

Ok, lets look at this another way, why do people hang out in front of the box stores? To get work from people/contractors stopping in at the store (I know it's dumb but just follow me). Why do people/contractors go to the box store looking to hire? Well, they didn't just go to the store and as they're walking out say to themselves "hey, I could really use someone right NOW to do my yard or build a shed. No, they specifically went there to hire the cheapest labor they could take advantage of, avoid any payroll,workmans comp or health insurance taxes and avoid any long term relationship. Basically get disposable labor. (as a side note, no they're not as some call 'em "slave labor" as they're here by choice doing what they do by choice.)
Now if that labor was unavailable for whatever reason they'd be forced to pay the going rate and get someone through normal channels thereby reducing the unemployment rate and raising wages.
Just think how many would be picked up if they had to pay 'em the going rate plus taxes? NONE.
As jobs and wages go up and as long as cost of living stays reasonable people will flock to the area to take advantage aka Texas.
There does NOT have to be an illegal flood of people nor a legal one to fill jobs here nor do we have to educate them as we can't even educate our own people properly. What we do HAVE to do is educate our OWN people to compete in todays world.
Providing cheap illegal labor while saving money on that specific task does nothing but cost money in the long run. Very,very short sighted I think.

[PoppySead]

I think this is a good law. About time, Americans need to earn a decent wage again instead of being undercut by illegals. Way to go! If we need to give up growth until we can figure out a way to obtain new citizens wihtout short changing the ones already here then so be it. Contracters can go to any employment center and pick up legal day labor.

[mexican.mike]

My mother an father were born here in the 1950's plus two of my grandparents. I have no WARENTS.
ssi number. Two state ID's. An a birth certificate. If some one tell's me that I can't wait out side HOME DEPOT for work. You sur just violated my constitutional rights. I will act. Eather by violence or a police report. On the other hand if a home depot employee asks me not to wait for work I will respect that employee as he has the RIGHT to ask such a thing. I worked for LABOR READY for years only to be under paid. Don't stand in a man's way if he is justified especially if his children are hungry!

[imagineAA]

09-12-2011, 03:58 PM

Please quote the section of the Constitution which gives you the right to solicit people on private property.

If you're going to call people stupid, perhaps do so in a current thread, and get your facts, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization correct.