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Old 06-04-2010, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Arizona
29 posts, read 37,794 times
Reputation: 16

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPhx View Post
You're kidding, right? That salad has 34g of fat! How can you possibly consider that healthy?

Healthy usually means low fat, moderate carbs, high protein, at least for most people. Unless your on a ketosis type of diet eating this salad would limit you to no more fat intake the rest of the day!
What?? Noooooo!!! Oh well, the average person is allowed 64 grams of fat so I'm still ok with this salad

Thanks for the responses!
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Arizona
29 posts, read 37,794 times
Reputation: 16
Oh, and yes it is the one with the pine nuts...it only has a handful of ingredients, but it is the perfect combo!
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:35 AM
 
9,120 posts, read 9,862,934 times
Reputation: 6598
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPhx View Post
You're kidding, right? That salad has 34g of fat! How can you possibly consider that healthy?

Healthy usually means low fat, moderate carbs, high protein, at least for most people. Unless your on a ketosis type of diet eating this salad would limit you to no more fat intake the rest of the day!
Agreed 100%

Most vegetarian and vegan restaurants are not healthy. They tend to be high in carbohydrates and fat, many of the items are fried as well. People hear buzz words like "vegetarian" and assume they are eating healthy. For example, the Ethiopian and Indian restaurants tend to be high in fat and carbs. It's a gimic. Vegetarian diets CAN be healthy if they are done properly but 99% of vegetarians often compensate for meat with high carbs(pasta) and fat (cheese) when they should be compensating with beans, legumes and coarse vegetables.

34 grams of fat is high for a meal but hardly bad for a full day's intake! You are allowed 50-60 grams of fat per day. Most people eat 3 to 4 times that amount(50 grams) in a day and don't realize it. A Whopper with Cheese has almost 50 grams of fat!
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
222 posts, read 339,186 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Agreed 100%

Most vegetarian and vegan restaurants are not healthy. They tend to be high in carbohydrates and fat, many of the items are fried as well. People hear buzz words like "vegetarian" and assume they are eating healthy. For example, the Ethiopian and Indian restaurants tend to be high in fat and carbs. It's a gimic. Vegetarian diets CAN be healthy if they are done properly but 99% of vegetarians often compensate for meat with high carbs(pasta) and fat (cheese) when they should be compensating with beans, legumes and coarse vegetables.

34 grams of fat is high for a meal but hardly bad for a full day's intake! You are allowed 50-60 grams of fat per day. Most people eat 3 to 4 times that amount(50 grams) in a day and don't realize it. A Whopper with Cheese has almost 50 grams of fat!
Most Indian restaurants I know don't 'sell' themselves as 'healthy'; that's something that others attribute to them, so I don't think we can accuse them of being gimicky. Having said that, if you eat the type of meal a typical Indian would eat, which has chick-peas, garbanzo beans, etc, you are probably coming out ahead.

More generally, I think 'healthy' has many interpretations. In my book, anything that stops people from going to McDonalds and eating a burger and fries every day, or going to KFC and eating greasy salty fried chicken, is a step in the right direction. So maybe the blue cheese salad at Paradise has 34 grams of fat; it also has nuts, dried cranberries, and lettuce. To say that is not 'healthy' is to come at this from a more extreme perspective. Personally I have them go light on the cheese, and on the dressing they use - so I'm probably getting half that fat. I go to Subway for lunch a few days a week, and I stick to simple sandwiches with turkey, lettuce, tomatoes, olives, and NO mustard/mayo/etc - just oil and vinegar. You can say that's not the most nutritional meal but again, I feel it is better than going to many other places that sell much worse options. I do realize that you can go to Subway and end up with a very unhealthy meal if you allow them to pour on their various 'sauces' ... you have to stick to 'dry' or 'oil and vinegar' - which I happen to love these days!

Most people I know who are vegetarian are very aware of the nutitional aspect of their diet. They are conscious of the need for protien, and have introduced me to several fantastic bean/nut-based dishes, and of course eat lots of fish, which is good. I don't know any fat/overweight vegetarians. As for vegans ... to me they are a fringe group and I have no time for them. I am a foodie and it would be hard enough for me to cut out meat, let alone fish and dairy! I HAVE successfully reduced my meat intake on the advice of my doctor (cholesterol issues), and I find myself not missing it at all - grilled fish, plus a whole lot more fruit and vegetables has improved my enjoyment of food.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Arizona
29 posts, read 37,794 times
Reputation: 16
Steerpike, well said.

I have been "pescotarian" since 2004 meaning I was still eating seafood and dairy products. Last month I decided to go "vegetarian" and cut out sea food. I'm still eating dairy products such as eggs for protein. Most of my protein comes from soy products, beans, nuts. I highly recommend Morning Star products- they are tasty! Other brands I like are Alexia, Amy's Kitchen, and Annies.

I also wanted to say I try not to eat many carbs and cheeses. When I eat breads, I try to get flat breads. When I eat pasta or rice dishes, I tend to pile on the veggies/tofu with minimal carbs. True Food Kitchen does this. Their Teriyaki Bowl with Tofu is the best. With rice, the darker the better.

I definitely don't feel deprived or miss eating meat. Now, I admit, some vegan and vegetarian products are not so easy on the tastebuds so I steer clear of them. A few include veggie cheeses and peanut butter. Other than that I love eating Is it lunch yet??!
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:26 PM
 
9,120 posts, read 9,862,934 times
Reputation: 6598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Most Indian restaurants I know don't 'sell' themselves as 'healthy'; that's something that others attribute to them, so I don't think we can accuse them of being gimicky. Having said that, if you eat the type of meal a typical Indian would eat, which has chick-peas, garbanzo beans, etc, you are probably coming out ahead.
I never accused them of claiming they are healthy. I was accusing people of mischaracterizing them as healthy because they are often listed as a "Vegetarian" option on lists. It's just proof that everything that is vegetarian isn't necessarily healthy but clueless people in our society fall for buzz words. Yes, Indians eat garbanzo beans but they also eat a diet that is very high in carbohydrates which includes a lot of rice and different breads with each meal so you are not really coming out ahead. Indians have a high incidence of diabetes. Unless you are a marathon runner or someone who devotes 2-3 hours of intense cardio a day (which describes maybe 5% of the population), you aren't going to burn those excess carbs and they will be converted and stored as fat.

Quote:
More generally, I think 'healthy' has many interpretations. In my book, anything that stops people from going to McDonalds and eating a burger and fries every day, or going to KFC and eating greasy salty fried chicken, is a step in the right direction. So maybe the blue cheese salad at Paradise has 34 grams of fat; it also has nuts, dried cranberries, and lettuce. To say that is not 'healthy' is to come at this from a more extreme perspective.
No, it's just a fact. If that salad is drenched in a cream based dressing ie Ranch and has cheese, that is not healthy if it amounts to 34 grams of fat. Lettuce has little nutrional value particularly ice berg lettuce which makes up the bulk of those salads, it's not like Spinach. And dried cranberries are high in sugar and carbs so they are not necessarily healthy either. Again, salad does not equal healthy in every case. Did you know a Big Mac at McDonalds has less fat than that salad? Again, forming impressions based on buzz words is foolish. French Fries aren't healthy but a hamburger can be healthy particularly if it doesn't have mayo or cheese. The mayo is what kills the Whopper at Burger King, order it without the mayo and the sandwhich drops about 20 grams of fat. You can also order grilled chicken sandwhiches and salads which are lower in fat at these establishments. KFC has grilled chicken

Quote:
Personally I have them go light on the cheese, and on the dressing they use - so I'm probably getting half that fat. I go to Subway for lunch a few days a week, and I stick to simple sandwiches with turkey, lettuce, tomatoes, olives, and NO mustard/mayo/etc - just oil and vinegar. You can say that's not the most nutritional meal but again, I feel it is better than going to many other places that sell much worse options. I do realize that you can go to Subway and end up with a very unhealthy meal if you allow them to pour on their various 'sauces' ... you have to stick to 'dry' or 'oil and vinegar' - which I happen to love these days!
Okay, so we are in agreement then. You do understand it's what you order not where you order that is the problem.

Quote:
Most people I know who are vegetarian are very aware of the nutitional aspect of their diet. They are conscious of the need for protien, and have introduced me to several fantastic bean/nut-based dishes, and of course eat lots of fish, which is good. I don't know any fat/overweight vegetarians. As for vegans ... to me they are a fringe group and I have no time for them. I am a foodie and it would be hard enough for me to cut out meat, let alone fish and dairy! I HAVE successfully reduced my meat intake on the advice of my doctor (cholesterol issues), and I find myself not missing it at all - grilled fish, plus a whole lot more fruit and vegetables has improved my enjoyment of food.
The overwhelming majority of vegetarians I see are fat and overweight. I'm a cardiologist and I see them as my patients. Most of them are of Asian origin. They compensate for the lack of meat with high carbohydrate meals that are laced with pasta and rice. People think they are healthy because they didn't eat a burger but instead ate fries and a salad. I see people think they are eating healthy because they now eat grilled cheese sandwiches instead of turkey sandwiches or burgers. Or they will think they are ordering the healthy option at a Middle Eastern restaurant because they order a fallafel intead of chicken shwarma, which is healtier. They will order cheese enchiladas instead of a much healthier chicken fajitas. Most vegetarians I know don't eat fish either. They are ovo-lacto vegetarians meaning they eat nothing with eyes but will eat dairy and eggs.

The odd thing we noticed is the people on the South Beach diet which includes a healthy portion of lean meat had lower cholesterol, tryglycerides, lower LDL and higher HDL than people on pure vegetarian diets. You have to understand that just because you don't consume cholesterol directly, if you are consuming a diet high in fat, your liver converts that to cholesterol. The lay public doesn't understand how cholesterol works and assumes if you don't consume cholesterol directly by eating animal products (the only source of cholesterol), you are safe. You are better off eating lean meat and veggies than eating a diet high in carbs and fats that is vegetarian. Those excess carbs will simply be converted and stored as fat in your body.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 06-04-2010 at 01:54 PM..
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:39 PM
 
1,272 posts, read 826,203 times
Reputation: 965
this is a vegetarian place. I have heard it is very good. Its at 20th st and camelback near sweet tomatoes. Chakra Cafe

Last edited by phoenixmike11; 06-04-2010 at 01:42 PM.. Reason: wanted to change
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,898 posts, read 6,415,342 times
Reputation: 878
Sorry I should have been more clear, a person looking to maintain their weight shouldn't be eating more than 40-50g of fat each day, it varies from person to person. For example, my diet right now consistes of mostly carbs and protein, and I am limited to about 45g of fat each day.

What I meant is that if you eat 34g of fat in one small salad, chances are the rest of your meals will have fat, and you will easily be pushing 80g of fat by the end of the day.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
222 posts, read 339,186 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
...
Yes, Indians eat garbanzo beans but they also eat a diet that is very high in carbohydrates which includes a lot of rice and different breads with each meal so you are not really coming out ahead. Indians have a high incidence of diabetes. Unless you are a marathon runner or someone who devotes 2-3 hours of intense cardio a day (which describes maybe 5% of the population), you aren't going to burn those excess carbs and they will be converted and stored as fat.
Are you talking about Indians here in the US, in PHX, or in India/Indian sub-continent? I've been to bangladesh and all I saw were very skinny people. Even here in the US, I've worked with Indians in the Bay Area and there wasn't a single one of them as fat as many Americans I know. Now, I do recall that - given that it is a poor country - there is a certain status to being 'fat' as it is a sign of wealth, but that wasn't a big factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
... If that salad is drenched in a cream based dressing ie Ranch and has cheese, that is not healthy if it amounts to 34 grams of fat. Lettuce has little nutrional value particularly ice berg lettuce which makes up the bulk of those salads, it's not like Spinach. And dried cranberries are high in sugar and carbs so they are not necessarily healthy either. Again, salad does not equal healthy in every case. Did you know a Big Mac at McDonalds has less fat than that salad?
Interesting! This site gives nutritional info on many mainstream products, and confirms what you said. This site shows the nutritional info for the Paradise salad. In fairness, if you look at the Big Mac and Cheese, it has 44g of fat and 142 mg of cholesterol.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:09 AM
 
9,120 posts, read 9,862,934 times
Reputation: 6598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Are you talking about Indians here in the US, in PHX, or in India/Indian sub-continent? I've been to bangladesh and all I saw were very skinny people. Even here in the US, I've worked with Indians in the Bay Area and there wasn't a single one of them as fat as many Americans I know. Now, I do recall that - given that it is a poor country - there is a certain status to being 'fat' as it is a sign of wealth, but that wasn't a big factor.
I'm referring to Indians in the United States whether they were born in India or in the U.S. (first generation). It doesn't matter if they are as fat as the largest American people, the fact remains they were overweight or obese both of which are unhealthy conditions. It's not a comparison. It's about stating facts. It doesn't matter if a meal is more unhealthy than another one if both are unhealthy. The point is we shouldn't be consumed by labels like "vegetarian" and just assume it's a healthier lifestyle because it isn't in every situation. It depends on what you eat

Quote:
Interesting! This site gives nutritional info on many mainstream products, and confirms what you said. This site shows the nutritional info for the Paradise salad. In fairness, if you look at the Big Mac and Cheese, it has 44g of fat and 142 mg of cholesterol.
The McDonalds website states it has 29 grams of fat. It does have more cholesterol. Other websites also confirm that.

Big Mac :: McDonalds.com
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