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My wife and I are pretty big into landscape photography, but we are not usually "free" enough to wait at some locations for a few hours for better light, so we have at times ended up with shots of beautiful mountains that just look dull or even washed out due to the very bright mid-day sun. I've tried polarizer or even neutral density filters and they help, but of course you still don't get the shot you would in better light.
So my question is this- I know the absolute best thing to do is get these shots in early morning or late evening light- but what do serious photographers do if they only have x amount of time in the bright sun to take shots like these? Is there anything they do to still be able to pull off the shots? Does a fairly strong neutral density filter (maybe an "8") help, to darken things down so much that you can do longer exposures?
Here is an example of one shot where I used a polarizing filter, metered on the brightest spot on the mountain, and then tried to adjust as best as I could in post processing, but it still looks rather dark and dull due to the sun being right overhead:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ywawobAnKWw/TezcZslblPI/AAAAAAAAD1Q/jVBxa2wB3O4/s512/Baker4.JPG (broken link)
I love to shoot on sunny days, even when I lived in relentlessly sunny Phoenix, Arizona! Being in the most relentlessly sunny place in America taught me a few things about getting good photos in the sun. Here are a few strategies that can help you to get the best out of sunny day photos.
1. Don't bother shooting at high noon unless you have partial cloud cover. It is just a waste of time. The extreme dynamic range from dark shadows to bright light is too much for your camera sensor and makes for bad photos. Also, the shadows are flat and ugly. However, if you have partial cloud cover (billowy white clouds on a blue sky) they serve as giant reflectors bouncing light back onto the landscape and softening shadows. You can shoot all day on partially cloudy days for that reason. Here is a sample, the billowy clouds opened up the shadows in this desert landscape (captured about 2pm) and made the colors softer.
2. Don't shoot into the sun - shoot at a 90 degree angle to the sun. The sky will always appear much bluer when you shoot at a 90% angle to the sun. You can easily see this with your eye if you look for it. The polarizer works best at that angle. Shooting into the sun creates the darkest shadows and haze, and the sky will blow out to white. Look for compositions at a 90 degree angle from the sun at least an hour before or after noon. You will get richer skies and better shadows in your landscapes. Here is a sample- sunny day, note the angle to the sun from the shadows in this photo:
3. Shoot at the lowest contrast setting and in neutral color. It is very easy to blow out bright colors and shadows if you have your camera set to record the images with vivid color. It is better to add contrast and color to taste in post-processing.
4. Finally, learn to judge sunlight. Sunny days, like sunsets vary in richness and color. Some sunny days are hazy others have a crisp blue color. You can learn how certain types of sunny days will photograph with practice over time. Hope you find this useful!
Thanks for the info! That does help. I know when I have the sun directly behind me on these bright sunny days I get some fantastic shots- but was hoping to see if there was some magic I was not aware of for those moments where the sun is more of a hinderance. I will try some of your advice next time if I happen to be in this situation again.
The one caution about shooting with the sun directly behind you is that you lose shadows. Shadows that fall at an angle create a much greater sense of depth making a photo more 3 dimensional. Without that the landscape can look rather flat.
I know the absolute best thing to do is get these shots in early morning or late evening light- but what do serious photographers do if they only have x amount of time in the bright sun to take shots like these?
The main thing is to avoid noon - when the sun is directly overhead. An hour or two after sunrise, or before sunset, when the sun is coming in from an angle, everything looks a lot more interesting... But you can also get good shots at 10AM or 3PM, if the angle of the sun is creating interesting shadows - just avoid high noon!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828
Does a fairly strong neutral density filter (maybe an "8") help, to darken things down so much that you can do longer exposures?
First, there is no filter in existence that will create interesting shadows when none exist. You really do need to shoot at the time of day when those shadows exist. And that doesn't mean only at sunrise or sunset, it means not at noon!
Second, a longer exposure isn't necessarily going to help - what you need is a correct exposure!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828
metered on the brightest spot on the mountain, and then tried to adjust as best as I could in post processing,
Metering off snow is difficult... Forgive me if I'm stating something you already know, but if so, maybe this explanation can help someone else reading the thread! When you meter off something that is pure white, like snow, then you need to open up by 1.5 - 2 stops. In other words, if your meter is telling you that 1/60 at f/16 is the correct exposure, then you need to open up by two stops, so maybe 1/60 at f/8? Or 1/30 at f/11? Or maybe you'll choose to go from 100 ISO to 400 ISO. However you do it the bottom line is that the meter "sees" that bright white and compensates to get an exposure of 18% gray. So you have to override your meter, and open up by a stop or two, in order to get a true white.
And no, adjusting the exposure while post processing is not the same. You'll be about two stops off, and that's too much for a digital file - even if you shoot RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828
but it still looks rather dark and dull due to the sun being right overhead:
But, you do have lovely clouds in that shot! And if it was properly exposed you can go in and open up the muddy shadows a little, which would help. Google dodging and burning if you don't know what I mean - it's an old darkroom process - but we still do it today, electronically!
my own rule of thumb is if i cant clear the sidewalls then the range is to great and ill hdr it .
if i want a real natural look ill exposure fuse them instead of wild tone mapping,.
alot of times when its end to end we will spend the day shooting what we call pieces of. my wife and i will shoot only objects or pieces of things that allow us to capture the range and eliminate the sky .
A good HDR would open up detail in the much darker landscape and bring back some better color and detail in the sky. You could probably create three exposures from this image if you shot raw.
You could probably create three exposures from this image if you shot raw.
Creating three exposures from one RAW to make an HDR that converts back to a single JPG is silly.
Don't most HDR programs these days allow tone mapping of a single raw? Photomatix does. I've pretty much given up on that approach and instead use the RAW converter adjustments in Photoshop/ACR to do the same thing, but without all the HDR hocus pocus.
Neutral density filters do no good for what you want. If you're shooting a waterfall or mountain stream and want to use a slower shutter to show the movement of the water, they're good for that, but for a standard landscape shot they do nothing.
Polarizing filters, on the other hand, eliminate glare and put color into the sky and foliage. I seldom shoot landscapes or buildings without a polarizing filter.
Late afternoon until sunset and sunset until mid-morning are the prime times for shooting about anything outdoors in full sunlight. As has been stated, cloudy days can work well too. You've just got to be mindful of the sky.
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I will try some of your advice next time if I happen to be in this situation again.
