Photographers..How much do you expect clients to spend on prints? (Canon, DSLR)
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I'm just curious if most professional photographers expect most clients to spend a certain amount of money on prints from them. We recently had our daughter's pictures, who is 2, done at a park. We were charged a $150 session fee, received 2 digital copies for free and then could purchase additional prints from the photographer. There was no minimum. I am pretty certain she does photography on the side and has been in business for about 3 years, so I'm guessing she is considered new. We got 60 photos, but it was technically only 30 bc each photo of the same pose was done in black and white and color. Out of those 30, I would say there were only about 10 that I would consider purchasing and only about 4-5 that I would want as enlargements on my wall. But, those few did come out beautiful. Of course, I know that every photo is going to be print worthy. My daughter was very difficult to photograph, we were at the park at an extremely busy time (and the photographer gave us that time to come) and she kept telling me daughter, who just turned 2 mind you, to get in all these sorts of poses, which went in one ear and out the other. I ordered my enlargements from the digital files she gave me on mpix, since it's much cheaper, and only ordered a few photos directly from her.
I was reading on another site how photographers make all their money from prints and how they try to stay away from clients who don't order a few hundred dollars worth of prints. Someone even said that they want the "middle class clients" who will drop at least $200 or more. I sorta don't agree with that nor think that bc it had anything to do with class. Maybe the person doesn't have the room in their home nor need that many photos. What about in my case where many of the pictures were of the side of my daughter or her running off. Why am I going to pay for those pictures? I didn't even order close to $100 worth of photos from her, but after reading what I read, it seemed like I would **** off most photographers. So, what is your thought on this? I am actually going to order 2 more prints from her, but that's about it. I would assume with a $150 sitting fee, she made some money off the session?
Each person has their own way of doing business. Whoever said we all make our money off prints is smoking something or is a newb fauxtographer. You are paying for their expertise and artistic talent.
Now, some photographers are very strict about how they want prints made so they don't offer negatives/files and only offer prints. Which was valid when we were film but now that almost all of us are digital we can create the art and just sell the file. Gone are the days of printing from a negative and hand airbrushing.
Some pros still hang on to the notion that if they let the customer have the file and they print it at Walmart or CVS that people will think they are a bad photographer because the print sucks. I don't really give a rat's patootie.
I have a cost of doing business. My prices are based on that and that only, including digital files. I also decided to scrap the whole sitting fee thing. I shoot, they see proofs, they buy. If they don't buy, it's my fault. It is my job to take good professional pictures. If they don't order a lot I only have myself to blame and I go over what I did wrong and try not to make the same mistakes.
Do I have some deadbeats that never intended to buy? I haven't had one yet (knock on wood) and I make a pretty good living. My usual sale is in the 4 figures.
So no, not all pros work the way yours does. Actually, I like it better when they buy files. Face it, it's easier. Mpix are good people. They are owned by Millers (one of my pro labs).
It's a new market with changing technology. I like the way I do business. It's not for everyone but works for me.
well I only work for friends so usually it does not amount to all that much but I dont really make all my money off the prints and I agree someone is smoking something ..I do consider word of mouth very important and the way I do business ...
I'm just curious if most professional photographers expect most clients to spend a certain amount of money on prints from them. We recently had our daughter's pictures, who is 2, done at a park. We were charged a $150 session fee, received 2 digital copies for free and then could purchase additional prints from the photographer. There was no minimum. I am pretty certain she does photography on the side and has been in business for about 3 years, so I'm guessing she is considered new. We got 60 photos, but it was technically only 30 bc each photo of the same pose was done in black and white and color. Out of those 30, I would say there were only about 10 that I would consider purchasing and only about 4-5 that I would want as enlargements on my wall. But, those few did come out beautiful. Of course, I know that every photo is going to be print worthy. My daughter was very difficult to photograph, we were at the park at an extremely busy time (and the photographer gave us that time to come) and she kept telling me daughter, who just turned 2 mind you, to get in all these sorts of poses, which went in one ear and out the other. I ordered my enlargements from the digital files she gave me on mpix, since it's much cheaper, and only ordered a few photos directly from her.
I was reading on another site how photographers make all their money from prints and how they try to stay away from clients who don't order a few hundred dollars worth of prints. Someone even said that they want the "middle class clients" who will drop at least $200 or more. I sorta don't agree with that nor think that bc it had anything to do with class. Maybe the person doesn't have the room in their home nor need that many photos. What about in my case where many of the pictures were of the side of my daughter or her running off. Why am I going to pay for those pictures? I didn't even order close to $100 worth of photos from her, but after reading what I read, it seemed like I would **** off most photographers. So, what is your thought on this? I am actually going to order 2 more prints from her, but that's about it. I would assume with a $150 sitting fee, she made some money off the session?
How do you think professional photographers eat and live? out of what money? for one.
Second, no, Unless there is a specified amount in a photo package, we don't expect you to buy them all. We also don't post 60 photos. I would post 10 tops. and definitely NOT the same pose in BW. You probably didn't get a professional photographer, and only someone with a camera who doesn't license, pay for liability insurance, etc.
The $150 sitting fee won't pay for her camera, nor her rent. So the answer is slightly yes, but she also seem to not understand pricing very well. There is a software called Foto Quote that gives correct pricing for various assignments. You should check that out.
The FACT that she took you to a busy park, at the worst time of day, and was trying to "reason" with a 2 year old tells me she was not a professional at all. I think you may have been duped.
If you like more information on this subject, I suggest you check out ASMP, PPA, and next time you want your kids professionally photographed do some more re-search and ask about their printing options. We, pro's, don't get prints for free, there are back end costs that are quite steep even now when everything's digital. I would say some are steeper than in film days.
This guys list applies mainly to wedding photographers, however about 3/4 of that list applied to all photographers who are professionals. Next time ask if the photographer has liability insurance. Why Wedding Photographers' Prices are
How do you think professional photographers eat and live? out of what money? for one.
Second, no, Unless there is a specified amount in a photo package, we don't expect you to buy them all. We also don't post 60 photos. I would post 10 tops. and definitely NOT the same pose in BW. You probably didn't get a professional photographer, and only someone with a camera who doesn't license, pay for liability insurance, etc.
The $150 sitting fee won't pay for her camera, nor her rent. So the answer is slightly yes, but she also seem to not understand pricing very well. There is a software called Foto Quote that gives correct pricing for various assignments. You should check that out.
The FACT that she took you to a busy park, at the worst time of day, and was trying to "reason" with a 2 year old tells me she was not a professional at all. I think you may have been duped.
If you like more information on this subject, I suggest you check out ASMP, PPA, and next time you want your kids professionally photographed do some more re-search and ask about their printing options. We, pro's, don't get prints for free, there are back end costs that are quite steep even now when everything's digital. I would say some are steeper than in film days.
This guys list applies mainly to wedding photographers, however about 3/4 of that list applied to all photographers who are professionals. Next time ask if the photographer has liability insurance. Why Wedding Photographers' Prices are
I am well aware of the PPA. My wedding photographer is a member and I am well aware that you have over-head costs. I chose her based on her portfolio, the pictures I saw that I liked, but it was obvious that she had a lot of issues working with a child my daughters age, and while she is hard to photograph, like you said, you don't reason with a 2 year old.
Also, being a member of the PPA does not by any means that you are a "good" photographer or run an ethical business. The photographer who took my daughter's newborn pictures is a member and basically held her pictures hostage for almost 5 months, refusing to return, calls or anything else and we never got some of the prints we ordered. Though she refunded our money but never explained what the problem was. She did this to quite a few other people as well, but that's for another post lol.
I am well aware of the PPA. My wedding photographer is a member and I am well aware that you have over-head costs. I chose her based on her portfolio, the pictures I saw that I liked, but it was obvious that she had a lot of issues working with a child my daughters age, and while she is hard to photograph, like you said, you don't reason with a 2 year old.
Also, being a member of the PPA does not by any means that you are a "good" photographer or run an ethical business. The photographer who took my daughter's newborn pictures is a member and basically held her pictures hostage for almost 5 months, refusing to return, calls or anything else and we never got some of the prints we ordered. Though she refunded our money but never explained what the problem was. She did this to quite a few other people as well, but that's for another post lol.
Which is why I said ask if they carry insurance. Liability insurance. Check names on the state website to see if they're registered etc. Unfortunately with so many people oblivious to professionalism, and photography, it is very hard to find someone that is really reliable, and a true pro. And you're right, there are a lot of folks with $300 to spare for the PPA membership.
You should sue her. You won't be the first nor the last person who had to sue a photographer. Some of these people buy STOCK PHOTOS and then pass them as theirs. Then, when they shoot your photos, they realize they have no idea how to crop, color correct, remove unwanted objects etc, not to mention they don't have proper packaging for delivery, and then they play dead hoping you won't sue them. SUE THEM. You are the client, who deserves excellent service for your money. These people take advantage of you. Matter of fact, when I pointed out to the owner of this website that she needs to take some photography classes she started insulting me! and told me she is God's gift to photography on earth: beverlyimages.biz
You be the judge.
If you join the Canon group on LinkedIn you will see posts almost daily asking "what settings" to use on weddings, baptisms etc. These people have no idea that these events cost the parents/couples thousands of dollars, and that their photographs are the ONLY thing these people remain with from the event. Flowers die, food is pooped etc. It is truly shameful, and these people are a disgrace to our business.
Each person has their own way of doing business. Whoever said we all make our money off prints is smoking something or is a newb fauxtographer. You are paying for their expertise and artistic talent.
Now, some photographers are very strict about how they want prints made so they don't offer negatives/files and only offer prints. Which was valid when we were film but now that almost all of us are digital we can create the art and just sell the file. Gone are the days of printing from a negative and hand airbrushing.
Some pros still hang on to the notion that if they let the customer have the file and they print it at Walmart or CVS that people will think they are a bad photographer because the print sucks. I don't really give a rat's patootie.
I have a cost of doing business. My prices are based on that and that only, including digital files. I also decided to scrap the whole sitting fee thing. I shoot, they see proofs, they buy. If they don't buy, it's my fault. It is my job to take good professional pictures. If they don't order a lot I only have myself to blame and I go over what I did wrong and try not to make the same mistakes.
Do I have some deadbeats that never intended to buy? I haven't had one yet (knock on wood) and I make a pretty good living. My usual sale is in the 4 figures.
So no, not all pros work the way yours does. Actually, I like it better when they buy files. Face it, it's easier. Mpix are good people. They are owned by Millers (one of my pro labs).
It's a new market with changing technology. I like the way I do business. It's not for everyone but works for me.
Here's the thing:
A professional will shoot RAW files and not JPEGS, if your photographer is shooting JPEGS I would be very eery of his professionalism. As a pro, there is no amount of money available that will make me sell the RAW files. As for social media, I only offer watermarked versions because social media is a major theft platform and I don't feel like having my work stolen and passed as someone Else's. I keep track of my clients and so if my image ends up elsewhere I know how it got there.
Most people want to share on social media, and photographers don't realize that they are loosing major business to that because not all photographers give watermarked teasers for use in social media, nor have terms and conditions forms specifying exactly what the client can and cannot do with those photos; that way they are leaving money on the table too BTW by not licensing properly. Also, if you shoot and offer 4x6's which is something an iPad can print, there's no value to be had there. BECAUSE of this digital pro's now have to offer things amateurs can't, or won't because they don't know how to. I don't print anything under 40x60 for a client. I create wall art, but even if I shot a portrait, I am not offering anything under 11x14/17 and up because new homes have large walls...what is the point of a tiny 4x6 anymore??? where would you put it? Think about this way: what is the point in buying a DSLR that gives you 50mb files (RAW) just so you post tiny web files on social media? waste of money....the iPhone is more than sufficient for social media. Pro's still shoot for the walls.
I don't offer digital files on CD for people photography, because that is a sure way for me to loose money; photography is a business, and I don't know any other business around that's in the market of loosing money rather than make money. I create custom packages. I discuss where my photos will go, and if all they want is social media, I don't even take my camera out. My family, friends don't live inside a computer. When they visit they admire our wonderful photos on our walls where these photos belong.
I agree shooting RAW gives you more wiggle room. I shoot RAW. Does every professional shoot RAW? Nope. It always seems to be the hot question at ImagingUSA and WPPI. I would say most lean towards RAW especially people like me who started in film and were used to the dark room. But a blanket statement that only pros shoot raw just isn't true.
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