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Old 03-07-2014, 11:27 AM
Status: "MAGA - Mental Ability Gone Awry" (set 29 days ago)
 
13,152 posts, read 21,689,668 times
Reputation: 14027

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aslowdodge View Post
This is far from price fixing. Just because you ask other people what they charge doesn't fix any pricing at all. You are just doing research on what other people charge. If you are pricing to undercut your competition you had to find out what they were charging to start with.
I did the opposite of you when I started out. I talked to a lot of people and found out what they charged. Then I set my prices about 50 to 200% higher than almost all of them. Although I will admit I was 25% less than the very top tiered photos.
I'm not saying that what you are doing is wrong, I just used a different approach.
I know a ton of photogs who priced low. Most found out they weren't making any money but as they tried to raise prices it was hard because they lost all the clientele they built up over the years because those clients were trained to pay a low price and get a certain quality. Once the price went up most all left to find another cheap photographer. They also felt very overworked, especially in light of how little they made. Two actually got divorced as the stress of a non profit job taxed their family lives.
It's a tough balance to price right and get work and be profitable.
You missed the context of the conversation. The suggestion wasn't made as "market research", but to make sure you're charging the same as your competition so that you aren't undercutting them and being rude. It's all there in her posts. She since has changed her stance in subsequent posts and then started calling it, "market research", and reversed herself by saying that most photographers would not be receptive to cold calls by other photographers to discuss pricing.

As I indicated, market research is good. I've perused other photographer's websites and asked family friends what they've paid. If I had friends in my niche, then I may choose to discuss it with them as well. However, the suggestion was made said to seek out (search on Google I believe) other photographers in that business and call them up. I can't even imagine having the cohones to do that. Did you really do that?

Also, just to be clear: I consider my competition to be the very top tier, and I priced below that. I didn't even look at low-end photographers. Your admission that you priced 25% below the top-tier tells me you did the exactly same thing.
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,288 posts, read 8,443,687 times
Reputation: 16509
No I think you might have misunderstood the context of the post, but whatever. When i first read it I did not see it as market price fixing at all.
Yes I did have the cajones to call people up. At the time I had no other way to do it. No one wanted to even talk prices back then. It can't hurt to ask.
I'm not sure what you consider to be top tier is my top tier. My family and children portrait sale average was about $3,000 to $5,000. I was more 25%+more expensive than everyone in a 10 mile radius and I only considered 4 other photographers to be better than me at the time who were within a 30 mile radius. My $2100 canvas portrait was less than those top 4. They were in the $2500 to $3,200 range.
Although in hind sight over the years I came to realize that among pros I could see they were a bit better than me, but the general public could not tell usually so the pricing may or may not have been an issue. Once you are in that price realm $300 or $400 difference here and there probably isn't going to make much difference. It's like if you buy an exotic car for $150K, $10K more or less among those types probably isn't going to have you pick one over the other just based on price.
When i started doing high school seniors I checked around and set my prices well above everyone else. My average this year was about $2,500.
Just out of curiosity what does you top tier charge in your area and where are you setting your prices in relation to them? has it gotten you a lot more work?
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:03 AM
 
560 posts, read 595,246 times
Reputation: 1512
2500 dollars for senior portraits? :O

damn ... how much do you charge per weddings if you do them?
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,288 posts, read 8,443,687 times
Reputation: 16509
I don't do weddings because I don't like going to them plus they are a crap load of work. But had I gone after them I would have gone after the $5K+ market.
Just so you know a senior can spend as low as $300 at my studio, but offering enough products,doing a good job for them, and learning how to sell gives me opportunities to have higher sales.
I have had seniors spend only $300, some not bought anything, and some up to $10K.
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Old 03-08-2014, 05:17 PM
Status: "MAGA - Mental Ability Gone Awry" (set 29 days ago)
 
13,152 posts, read 21,689,668 times
Reputation: 14027
Quote:
Originally Posted by aslowdodge View Post
No I think you might have misunderstood the context of the post, but whatever. When i first read it I did not see it as market price fixing at all.
Let's revisit the post to which I replied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoProIP View Post
Just so you know, there are still people out there who do real estate photography for a living, as in not having another job or trust fund paying for their expenses.
Please be mindful of that, and don't ruin your own colleagues pricing structures.

I think you should Google to see who else is doing this for a living in your area, and have a chat with them about pricing.
To me she's more concerned about keeping prices uniform than she is determining your own price.

Thanks for your pricing info. As mine's still a work in progress, I'm going to pass on making those details public. However, I'd be happy to share my business model with you in private if you like. I could probably learn a thing or two from you.

Last edited by kdog; 03-08-2014 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
328 posts, read 651,943 times
Reputation: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoProIP View Post
"The money is not an issue"? are you a trust fund baby? how much stuff do you get for free? who's paying for your gas? Just so you know, there are still people out there who do real estate photography for a living, as in not having another job or trust fund paying for their expenses.
Please be mindful of that, and don't ruin your own colleagues pricing structures.

I think you should Google to see who else is doing this for a living in your area, and have a chat with them about pricing.

Be warned: Real Estate agents are THE WORST clients. They have zero appreciation for our work, and would like the world and a few planets for free with those photos.

You should ask what exactly they want photographed; how many rooms, how detailed etc, if you're there 20 minutes or 5 hours...in more than one case, once you're there it starts: "can you shoot this too, and this, and that?"........


I was just trying to imply that this is more about the experience and didn't want to come off money hungry. Another reason I say its not all about the money is because I am already heavily invested in gear, I don't really need anything else to do this.I am my employers house photographer as well. I do work for them far cheaper than anyone else in the city, but I like the work, and its great experience. I have googled numerous folks doing estate photography but few of them list their prices,that is why I came on here and asked you. If the client becomes too difficult, I have no problem cutting my losses. I have a full time job, I do this on the side when I have time. The people who hire me for portraiture work will come first. I get busy when its warm out but that is ok, if I am swamped with photog jobs, then I'm doing my job right.

Last edited by drawk04; 03-26-2014 at 11:43 PM..
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:56 AM
 
4,586 posts, read 5,577,929 times
Reputation: 4369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusitano_ View Post
Re: HDR even if you do it manually it's still HDR. Alright maybe you don't want to be connected to the bad name that HDR has been getting lately where people have been using it really bad. It doesn't make it less that HDR.
In the pro world, we like to call things for what they are, and not by their bad reputation, or names given by people who don't know what the professional terminology is.

A multiple exposure blended in Photoshop manually through layer masks is exactly that, and NOT HDR. An HDR is processed differently, and if an image has not been toned mapped it is not an HDR. Saying the two are the same, is like saying in the dental world that a crown is the same as a bridge. I don't like to perpetuate the wrong description of anything.

I'll put it this way: IF The Folks at Adobe don't call the 2 twins, neither am I! There is an option in Photoshop to merge to HDR, and then there are layers created from one image exposed differently that allows us to create a blended exposure by taking the properly exposed parts of an image and blend them together to create one final properly exposed image. NOT Tone Mapped at all. IF Exposure blending and HDR were the same thing, then Photomatix and other programs would not exist. Logic. OR There wouldn't be an HDR option under the Image menu in Photoshop.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:34 AM
Status: "MAGA - Mental Ability Gone Awry" (set 29 days ago)
 
13,152 posts, read 21,689,668 times
Reputation: 14027
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoProIP View Post
if an image has not been toned mapped it is not an HDR.
Well, if you're going to be pedantic about it, you've got it wrong as well. An HDR is an HDR whether it's tone-mapped or not. In Photoshop (since you brought it up), merging multiple exposures to HDR produces a 32 bit TIFF file. That is your HDR. You can then tone-map that file in Photoshop, or even in another program. Then it becomes a "tone-mapped HDR". You are simply assigning the moniker "HDR" to a tone-mapped HDR, while in fact they are separate entities.

Here it is, straight from Adobe.

"In Photoshop, the luminance values of an HDR image are stored using a floating-point numeric representation that’s 32 bits long (32‑bits-per-channel). The luminance values in an HDR image are directly related to the amount of light in a scene. By contrast, non-floating point 16‑ and 8‑bpc image files store luminance values only from black to paper white, reflecting an extremely small segment of dynamic range in the real world.

In Photoshop, the Merge To HDR Pro command lets you create HDR images by combining multiple photographs captured at different exposures. Because an HDR image contains brightness levels that far exceed the display capabilities of a standard 24‑bit monitor, Photoshop lets you adjust the HDR preview. If you need to print or use tools and filters that don’t work with HDR images, you can convert them to 16- or 8‑bpc images.
"

Source: Photoshop Help | High dynamic range images

My point being, you're simply arguing semantics. Your definition of HDR takes a few liberties, as does the definition you're arguing against. If some one wants to call a manual merge of exposures an HDR, that's no less accurate than your definition is. It's still High Dynamic Range rendering.
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