relcoating to Pittsburgh and concerns (property taxes, lease, work)

[Katiana]

Please quit insulting me, by telling me I don't know what I'm looking at, looking for, I don't know what an artsy part of town looks like, etc. I have not lost that many brain cells at 5400 feet of altitude.

No, I didn't go and knock on anyone's door and ask to see their house. The homes I saw had no evidence of anything having been done to the exteriors, the porches or any portion of the house visible from the outside, which is an odd way to rehab a house. I looked at all the websites you sent; one place was "near" the South Side, ie could be anywhere, one that gave a link to a map was on the slopes, another advertised being on the slopes. I used the map to find the Angel Condos and they appear to be on the slopes as well. Perhaps there are some pockets of rehabilitation going on there, but it isn't extensive. Yes, the prices are ridiculous; I thought housing in Pittsburgh was supposed to be so cheap!

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Please quit insulting me, by telling me I don't know what I'm looking at, looking for, I don't know what an artsy part of town looks like, etc. I have not lost that many brain cells at 5400 feet of altitude.

Funny! My husband and son are going to New Mexico this summer. Will they lose brain cells while they're there? The doctor warned my husband to take an inhaler with him. Hubby thinks he's going to be just fine without one. Back on topic: you really don't sound like you know what you're talking about when you think that hip, artsy communities require upscale, renovated housing. Artsy communities always start in the parts of a town where nobody else wants to live. Artists can't afford anything but dirt cheap. Remember, we started this banter because I responded to your saying that it wasn't "upscale" and it didn't look "hip." Well, it is hip. So I guess you don't know artsy when you see it.

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

I looked at all the websites you sent; one place was "near" the South Side, ie could be anywhere, one that gave a link to a map was on the slopes, another advertised being on the slopes. I used the map to find the Angel Condos and they appear to be on the slopes as well. Perhaps there are some pockets of rehabilitation going on there, but it isn't extensive.

Southside and Southside slopes are pretty interchangable.

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Yes, the prices are ridiculous; I thought housing in Pittsburgh was supposed to be so cheap!

Housing in Pittsburgh is cheap, but not in Southside because it's the hip, artsy place to live.

Southside is being gentrified (your words). Housing prices have skyrocketed because people are paying huge money to move into the area. Eventually, many artists and Southside lifers will be pushed out of the area. That's what gentrification is all about.

Here, read this wiki link about gentrification: Gentrification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Southside has been in the stage of the "artists, bohemians, hipsters" moving into the neighborhood---and more recently some wealth is beginning to put their money into Southside. So, Southside is "being" gentrified. It's a process.

[Katiana]

Well, either the South Side is artsy and bohemian, or it's upscale. First you claim it to be one, then the other. I do not need a tutorial on "gentrification", though I looked at the article. There is plenty of it going on and supposedly going on in Denver, too.

What I saw on Carson St. is this: a lot of bars and restaurants, some chain, some local, some indeterminate; office buildings; stores where it was hard to determine what they were selling; a mall at the east end of the street that could have been "Anymall USA"; a park; a Goodwill store. One of my compainions said "if you go a block off that main street it's a slum". Please note this is not my statement. What I did not see on a sunny Sunday afternoon: people playing musical instruments on the street and asking for donations, or really many people walking down the street. Did hear more than see a bunch of bikers.

Re: New Mexico - take that inhaler! Take everything you think you might need. NM is a fairly rural state with only a few large cities. You might have a hard time finding a dr or a pharmacy in some of the more rural areas.

[Hemingway]

Originally Posted by Hopes

But hip isn't upscale, pittnurse. Hip is starving artists, live music, etc. That's southside. You have to get out of your car and walk around. The stores are truly unique on Carson Street. And if you go at night, the streets are literally flooded with pedestrians walking from bar to bar to experience a wide variety of live music. Southside is hip. It's what Shadyside was years ago---back before Shadyside became upscale. That's what happens to art communities. The communites become cool and then the residential and retail property becomes so expensive that the very people who made it cool---the artists---are pushed out. So next time you're looking for hip, don't look for upscale.

Well said Hopes!!!!!!

[NewBurg]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Even my brother, a staunch Pittsburgher, couldn't see the "hipness" two weeks ago this coming Sunday.
.

Hmmm... on the Southside you have independent coffee shops, independent record stores, independent used book stores, antique shops, vintage clothing stores, punk shops, hippy gear, vegan restaurants, sushi bars, all kinds of ethnic restaurants, galleries, clubs,etc... all on a mile-long historic, victorian mainstreet. Everything flows along a river, nestled in the mountains with a great view of the city. Throw in churches, schools, and factories being converted into lofts, new condos along the river. Throw in some hip chains like urban outfitters, the cheesecake factory, REI, along the other end...bike trails and boating docks. Add to this a local population of artists, punks, young professionals, and old locals, and I don't really get what COULDN'T be hip. You don't exactly have to be a hipster to "get" what's great about this neighborhood.

[Katiana]

Hmm. . . the high school is shuttered. Those "hip chains" are in every mall in America that I have ever been to. You could be at FlatIron Crossing in Broomfield, Colorado. "Nestled" in the "mountains"? I don't think so.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by NewBurg

Perfect, Hopes. I agree 100%.

Originally Posted by Hemingway

Well said Hopes!!!!!!

Thank you, thank you. You're both too kind.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Well, either the South Side is artsy and bohemian, or it's upscale. First you claim it to be one, then the other.

I never claimed Southside to be upscale. You're the one who was looking for upscale. I've spent the last few posts pointing out that Southside is "hip" and upscale does not enter into the equation. The only remote reference I made to upscale was to point out that the process of "gentrification" has started. The operative word is BEING: "Southside is being gentrified." It doesn't happen overnight. It's a process. I tried to explain the process by showing you how real estate is through the roof----that means that eventually the people who are making Southside a hip, cool place to live will eventually be leaving for somewhere more affordable. And it does appear you need a tutorial on it since you continue to not grasp how Southside fits the mold of a community in the process of being gentrified.

Originally Posted by pittnurse

What I saw on Carson St. is this: a lot of bars and restaurants, some chain, some local, some indeterminate; office buildings; stores where it was hard to determine what they were selling;

Again, you.....have......to.....get.....out.....of......t he......car!

Originally Posted by pittnurse

One of my compainions said "if you go a block off that main street it's a slum". Please note this is not my statement.

Goodness, you didn't leave main street?

Originally Posted by pittnurse

What I did not see on a sunny Sunday afternoon: people playing musical instruments on the street and asking for donations, or really many people walking down the street. Did hear more than see a bunch of bikers.

The live music isn't in the streets. The establishments in the area support the musicians by offering them a place to showcase their work. You should have checked out Southside at night. Southside completely transforms itself in the evenings.

Originally Posted by pittnurse

Re: New Mexico - take that inhaler! Take everything you think you might need. NM is a fairly rural state with only a few large cities. You might have a hard time finding a dr or a pharmacy in some of the more rural areas.

Thanks. I'll packing one with my son so he can give it to his dad when he needs it. My husband doesn't have any health issues requiring an inhaler. The doctor simply feels that he could benefit from having one with him since he will be hiking at high altitudes.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Yes, the prices are ridiculous; I thought housing in Pittsburgh was supposed to be so cheap!

What would a rowhouse go for in Denver if situated in one of the busiest nightlife districts in the city? I've seen some rehabbed places in the Flats that would fetch no less than half a million in a similar neighborhood in Chicago and yet the asking price there is well under $200,000. And as for the slopes, you can't find a detached single-family home in this town for less than $250K in any condition (unless it's in the 'hood), much less one that is fully rehabbed and has a skyline view. And Chicago is not an expensive city compared to its coastal counterparts. Housing in the Southside may not be cheap by Pittsburgh standards, but it's still cheap by the standards of similar housing in other cities.

Finally, you may think it strange to rehab a house on the inside while leaving the outside in less-than-pristine condition, but that's actually pretty common when a neighborhood is just starting to gentrify, for a couple of reasons: a) The new owners may not have the budget to do both the inside and the outside, and given a choice would rather rehab the part they live in; b) many intentionally leave the exterior in its less-than-pristine condition to try to maintain the "rough-edge" appearance of the neighborhood, thinking it more "authentic urban." Strange as that may seem, for a certain crowd that is actually the preferred aesthetic. As has been pointed out, the first wave of gentrifiers are typically artists/musicians/bohemian-types, and often they are not concerned with the "skin-deep" appearance; for some, being thus concerned practically violates their sense of priorities. These are people who walk around with nose rings and faded vintage T-shirts, after all.

Then there's a third reason offered by one of my former clients: while his place was stunning on the inside, he kept the outside looking like hell as a way to deter burglars who would pass on it thinking it unlikely that his place would contain anything of value. Now that his particular neighborhood is completely gentrified (whereas at the time it was more "in transition") I don't know that he could get away with that any more.

[bboy36win]

I initially thought the same thing as Pittnurse when I drove through Southside. But then two things occurred to me:
1. Hip is felt, not seen.
2. At 39, I am no longer hip.