Insulation issues with older houses...? (and $ issues in general w/ older houses)

[alleghenyangel]

These are things you need to check on before you buy an old house (get a home inspector that is familiar with historic buildings and their issues):

1. If it is brick, do the bricks need repointing (mortar)? You can tell by looking for holes in the mortar. However, from what I have read about older homes, it's okay if the mortar is not strong (ie if it flakes when you touch it). That is a sign the mortar is not too strong for the brick (a good thing). Repointing is expensive.

2. How is the roof? Is it a flat roof, or how high is the pitch? How big is the roof? All of these things affect how much a new roof is going to cost, if it needs one.

3. Check out the foundation. Is it cracked and falling apart or does it seem sturdy? Is the structure of the house crooked or straight (stand back and look at the house from across the street)?

4. How much cosmetic refurbishment is the house going to need (for example, plaster wall repairs, paint, siding replacement, etc.)

5. Are the windows original, or new? Original wood windows are beautiful, but single paned windows are not good insulators. Fortunately, you can have new windows crafted in the old style by one of the Mill Works companies, with double panes, but that is going to cost $$.

6. Check out the mechanical systems of the house (furnace, electrical, plumbing). Are they in working order? This is probably the most important thing to inspect.

So if all those things check out okay, then you probably have a sturdy, liveable home.

[juliegt]

Originally Posted by Katiana

My dad had insulation blown into his "This Old House" brick home in Beaver County. He said it didn't help much with the bill. He probably should have replaced some of the windows, but he was getting older when he got more "green", and thought he'd never live to see the payback.

We had blown in insulation and new windows here in CA and it made a big difference. Cooler in summer and warmer in winter. But, the added bonus is that when the windows are shut, we get almost no street noise.

[juliegt]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

Well -- I can see why people let the ivy grow -- it's very picturesque. But it is HORRIBLE for the house.

I've been told that only certain types of ivy are bad for homes. The kind that sends out those shoots that get inside any opening and causes the damage. There are other types of vines that don't send out shoots, but simply grow up the sides of buildings that are supposedly ok. But, I have no personal experience, I've just heard it from people who say they know it to be the case.

[rhondee]

As far as heating types in an older home go for gas/hot water. The hot water in the radiators hold the heat longer( and at the same time help humidify dry air) than the gas hot air type of heat.I finally replaced my 45 year old furnace a few years ago but surprisingly have noticed just a small reduction in gas bill( although that's b/c gas prices went up)
The drawback of hot water type is you don't have the existing ductwork if you would like to install central air cooling. But just as the ductwork is inefficient for heating is also for cooling.
I see many homes with the split duct cooling systems ( Slim Jims) in homes with hot water radiators. the good thing about these newer split duct systems they allow for zone cooling rather than cooling the whole house. You could install these in the most used or main areas of living space-then maybe get a couple small window a/c units for rooms that are less used.

[rhondee]

for TIGER BEER I have a 90 year old depression era brick house. I've never had any issues but good point by TALLYSMOM I do try to keep any ivy from growing up the sides. When it did I had ants crawling from the ivy into my house!
I've also maintained the original slate roof which has held up in great shape now for close to 100 years.
I agree with the windows- I have 33 windows in my house- I replaced the rear windows but I kept the front original wood paned windows but added storm windows which has excellent insulating plus protects the wood windows.I put Pittsburgh glass block windows in the basement which are very insulating.
Another tip- like TALLYSMOM said -I have used in the past b/c I replaced my windows in phases and did them whenever I had the xtra $. Go to Joanne Fabric shop and purchase the heavy gauge clear vinyl by the yard they sell in rolls. It's works better than those thinner plastic window kits and they can be reused the next year-just wipe them clean with windex.

[Honest Bob]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

Do they seem to bleed the heat in the winter? Is it quite costly to insulate them more properly...how much would something like that end up costing someone?

Also, what other serious money issues comes up with older houses...cheaper houses...etc.

Finally, if someone was to look for the older/cheaper houses...is it best to completely avoid wood, etc. Look for the brick houses...any issues with the brick houses?

First - let me start out by agreeing with all points made by Alleghenyangel.

Now let me introduce myself and explain why my post is probably going to be 10 times longer then hers.

I grew up in a old coal mining house. The cost of the build was minimal when it was built. It's whole purpose was to provide housing for the mine employee's while they were employed by the deep mine in my town.

When I was a kid, the houses were sold to the individuals and it was up to the individual - if they wanted to insulate or not. The state even came in at one time and blew insulation in for free - Weatherization - for low income families.

First off - the worst homes to insulate are brick. Most times you might get lucky and find one that has studded walls. But not always. You have to do a exploratory in each wall to find out what is behind the plaster and laths. That's all going to cost you money.

Second off - with a stick built house, there is no guarantee that it is not a double plank house. There is no guarantee that it even has 2 x 4 studs in the walls.

Once you open up the walls - you will find that while you are there, you are also going to need to rewire the entire house - if it does not have romex style wire. Knob and tube is a no no these days. So that is going to increase your investment.

Then to close it back up and do it proper - you are probably going to have to remove all windows, restud the window area and cap off the new window frame. That too is going to cost you money.

The truth be told, insulation belongs on the outside of the house and not on the inside. You also have to remember that if it was a asphalt shingle type home and you add insulation and it has vinyl or aluminum siding on the outside - the insulation is probably going to sweat - because there will be an exchange between the warm inside air and the cold outside air. This will cause condensation to form and will cause mold issues.

When you insulate and plan to drywall - you also need to put up a 6 mil plastic vapor barrier and an acoustic sealant on the floor side and tuck tape all seams and run the plastic up over the ceilings in all rooms to seal off the cold air from the outside and keep the warm air inside from allowing moisture to go into your insulation.

Now remember the R- value on the insulation. The wood boards and plaster has a R rating of 1. That is the same R value as the single pane glass windows. The reason why it has a R - 1 is because it stops airflow.

When you move up to a R-13, you now have doubled the insulation factor in the walls. This will reduce your heating and cooling bills by 1/2

To double your insulation factor - you must double the number. So to double the insulation in the wall - you have to move up to a R -26

New home construction calls for 6 inches of insulation and a 2 x 6 construction wall and the studs to be 24 inches on center, not 16
The reason for this is because again - the boards only has a R factor of 1

When you reduce the number of studs in the wall - you reduce the amount of heat exchange.

To make the house super insulated, you need at least a R-36 in the walls and a R-60 in the attic.

Attic insulation is not all the same. Blown insulation has a higher R factor then the batts. The reason being that the batts only goes between the rafters and the blown insulation covers the entire area. You want approximately 12 inches in your attic for a Pittsburgh style home.

You also need to include in that bill, the proper vents, ridge vents, whirleybirds and to exhaust all sewage gases to the outside of the home.

They have a type of insulation that is blown wet that sticks to the rafters.
Rumor has it that it takes 6 months to cure.
The only issue I see with that type of attic insulation is that drywall and wet insulation does not mix. It can cause mold issues if it is applied at the wrong time of the year.

You want to have about a R -6 minimum on the outside of the house.
You also need some sort of typar or tyvex wrap applied to the outside of the house before you side the house.

All this crap costs money and you have to figure what ever it costs in materials, it is going to cost double or triple in labor. The reason being that new construction is much cheaper then remodeling is due to the fact that you first have to remove everything and then haul it away before you can start to build when you remodel and with new building codes - any contractor that suspects lead based paints in the house - of more then a certain percentage - has to turn you in and they have to do a lead abatement type deal where they dispose of the old boards and trim and plaster - and they treat it like hazardous materials.

A home owner is allowed to remove so much on their own, but the problem is - getting someone to haul it away for you cheaply. I don't know how much materials the landfills accepts anymore.

In the end, there is no way for me to look into my crystal ball and tell you how much this will cost you without looking at your house and giving you my honest opinions. My 8 years of construction background tells me that most times I am pretty close on what things cost today and what you will need to endure to make it all happen.

The end result is that you never remodel over existing, you always remove the bad, put in the new and cover it all up with drywall and paint.
A little lipstick and mascara and you will be good as new again.

The only beneficial thing to removing everything will be that the new wiring and siding will probably reduce your homeowners insurance when you are done. Your taxes will be much less then what it would be - if you just went out and built or bought a brand new house. And you will be able to live where you want or keep the house you presently own and not have to start all over again.